M1008 questions

[jonrpick]

Hey all... I've been offered what's left of a M1008 CUCV (truck, not Blazer) for FREE. It's supposed to be a frame, tranny, transfer case, front and rear axles (D60 & 14BFF / 4.56) and the leaf springs.

I'm pretty sure the tranny would be a TH400, but which transfer case would it be? (crossing fingers that someone will say np205)

I'm gonna take all the drivetrain stuff out and ditch the frame, probably at a scrapyard or something, unless somebody close wants it.

Thanks,

 

[resurrected_jimmy]

truck = M1009

The t-case is a 32 spline NP 208 and yes the tranny is a 400. If you are building a truck and not a K5 keep the frame. One ton frames are much more stout that 1/2 and 3/4 ton frames

 

[jonrpick]

truck = M1009

The t-case is a 32 spline NP 208 and yes the tranny is a 400. If you are building a truck and not a K5 keep the frame. One ton frames are much more stout that 1/2 and 3/4 ton frames

I mistyped when I put in "8"...

Yeah, I know the frame is stronger, but unfortunately don't have a use for it. On the t-case...oh well. I have a 208 now, and it needs to be replaced, so that's not a bad thing. I was just hoping for a free upgrade, but a free replacement will do.

I'll probably sell the TH400 as well.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

The pickup trucks are M1008's unless they got the super heavy duty spring packages when they became M1028's.
K5 Blazers were the M1009's.

If it's an automatic it's a TH400.
SOME of the M1028 pickups had SM465 manual trannies that came with NP205's. Also, SOME of the M1028's with TH400's came with a NP205 as well...they needed the PTO for whatever option the military wanted them for.

It's more than likely that you've got a TH400 and a NP208 there. Nothing to sneeze at really. You also get skidplates unless someone took them. Remember the 14FF will have the 1 ton spring pads and spacing on it.

Nice score!

 

[resurrected_jimmy]

AJMBLAZER you are correct. I got them backwards the 1009 series is a blazer and the 1008 series is the pickup.

Apologies to jonrpick for the misinformation

 

[jonrpick]

The pickup trucks are M1008's unless they got the super heavy duty spring packages when they became M1028's.
K5 Blazers were the M1009's.

If it's an automatic it's a TH400.
SOME of the M1028 pickups had SM465 manual trannies that came with NP205's. Also, SOME of the M1028's with TH400's came with a NP205 as well...they needed the PTO for whatever option the military wanted them for.

It's more than likely that you've got a TH400 and a NP208 there. Nothing to sneeze at really. You also get skidplates unless someone took them. Remember the 14FF will have the 1 ton spring pads and spacing on it.

Thanks for the info...a a 208 would be easier to deal with for now seeing as how it'd just bolt in, and I don't need the 205's strength right now. Phase 1 of the drivetrain upgrade will be 1-ton gear, but no lift or big tires.

I may try to trade the 14BFF for a 3/4 version with 3.73 gears if I can find one. That way it'd be a bolt-in and my engine wouldn't be screaming down the highway (4.56 gears + 31" tires = mucho gas consumption )

I assume that all 208's are basically the same and my K5 slip-yoke will slide in without issue and everything should bolt up with the driveshaft, correct?? (Yes, I'm aware that I need the conversion u-joint to connect it to the 14BFF)

Also, even though it's probably coming from behind a TH400, will I still be able to bolt it to my 700R4?

Nice score!

Thanks!!!

Apologies to jonrpick for the misinformation

No problem... I didn't dispute because I didn't do a whole lot of research. I figured I must've hit the wrong key or read my info wrong.

 

[fourwheelerjeff]

Also, even though it's probably coming from behind a TH400, will I still be able to bolt it to my 700R4?

no, you will have to change the input spline in the t-case to put it behind the 700r4

 

[jonrpick]

no, you will have to change the input spline in the t-case to put it behind the 700r4

I'm assuming that could be swapped from my old 208 into the "new" one??? Would that be a ridiculous amount of work for a newb or fairly straight-forward?

 

[merace19]

Yeah it super hard to do. Guess you can just give me the parts truck I can use it

 

[jonrpick]

Yeah it super hard to do. Guess you can just give me the parts truck I can use it

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Dude, seriously consider keeping those axles as they are. Remember a gear swap is good for at least a grand in most places unless you know someone who can do it, you trust their work, and even then just parts will put you back $300 with rebuild kits.
Not to mention that rear axle has a DETROIT LOCKER in it, not some namby pamby factory grenade lock limited slip or some lesser traction adder. That alone would cost almost $400 new!

Keep the half ton parts on until you can afford the lift and bigger tires. That way you can do it all at once....

...or just save money like some of us have done and cut to fit bigger tires. All it costs is the tires and some cutting device blades/bits/discs/whatever.


I'd even consider buying another half ton axle to keep it going down the road with 31's if there's something wrong with your stuff now. People give half ton stuff away around here.

 

[jonrpick]

Dude, seriously consider keeping those axles as they are. Remember a gear swap is good for at least a grand in most places unless you know someone who can do it, you trust their work, and even then just parts will put you back $300 with rebuild kits.
Not to mention that rear axle has a DETROIT LOCKER in it, not some namby pamby factory grenade lock limited slip or some lesser traction adder. That alone would cost almost $400 new!

Keep the half ton parts on until you can afford the lift and bigger tires. That way you can do it all at once....

...or just save money like some of us have done and cut to fit bigger tires. All it costs is the tires and some cutting device blades/bits/discs/whatever.


I'd even consider buying another half ton axle to keep it going down the road with 31's if there's something wrong with your stuff now. People give half ton stuff away around here.

I hear what you're saying... I need the extra strength out back, even with the 31's for pulling a trailer. I know a K5 isn't the best tow-rig, with the short wheelbase and all, but I'll need it for pulling a U-Haul-style tandem axle trailer for band use / moving stuff. Plus I'd like to get a pop-up camper by next summer. Getting a longer-wheelbase truck for towing isn't an option, and I wouldn't do it enough to warrant buying it, nor do I have the space for it.

I just don't trust the 10-bolts after losing two ON THE STREET. One of them gov-bombed and the other wasn't really due to it being a 10-bolt, but still...I guess I'm just spooked.

Those 4.56's would just be too much. Maybe I can set it aside, but I don't know...my girlfriend might not appreciate the yard looking like a junkyard. I might be able to stick them in a mini-storage place, but I wouldn't want to pay rent for a couple of axles. I *could* do it if I empty my bigger storage space and get a smaller one.

My plan was to go 14BFF in the back, and 8-lug the front, with 3.73's in both for the time being. I've seen several 14BFF's with 3.73's stock from 3/4-ton trucks and figured that'd be the easiest way to go. Yes, I know the value of the piece I'll be getting.

This *is* a tough decision...dang it, you got me thinkin'.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Pick up some 33's or something. You can fit 33's pretty easily on a stock 73-87(91) GM truck. That'd make it useable, hell, you got OD for a reason! It'd be a towing machine with 33's and 4.56's. Sorta like 4.10's and 31's like a lot of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks came from the factory (or even smaller!) with.

It's your truck but the thing is...by the time you bought the stuff to do a conversion to the 3/4 ton axles or even an even swap with the rear 14FF and then regear the D60 to 3.73...you could have just put the FREE axles you now have in and then bought bigger tires and made them fit.

1" ORD zero rates all around...less than $150 delivered.
1" ORD body lift and new bushings...Less than $200 delivered.

2" of lift and probably some much needed maintenance for less than $400 and some time.


Then get the cutting disc out and make room for 38's!


Well, that's my plan at least. Right now I have a stock height 1 ton with minorly trimmed fenders running 34-35" tall 36's.

 

[jonrpick]

Pick up some 33's or something. You can fit 33's pretty easily on a stock 73-87(91) GM truck. That'd make it useable, hell, you got OD for a reason! It'd be a towing machine with 33's and 4.56's. Sorta like 4.10's and 31's like a lot of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks came from the factory (or even smaller!) with.

True... 3.73's with 31's at 70mph in OD would be 1981rpm according to the calculator I'm using (Randy's isn't working for me for some reason). 4.56's with 33's would be 2275rpm. So I'd only increase engine speed by 294rpm.

It's your truck but the thing is...by the time you bought the stuff to do a conversion to the 3/4 ton axles or even an even swap with the rear 14FF and then regear the D60 to 3.73...you could have just put the FREE axles you now have in and then bought bigger tires and made them fit.

Somewhat true... This whole assembly has back wheels only, so the front is laying on the D60. It's missing some parts, although I won't know what exactly until I get it here. At worst it's a free assembly with R&P. Should have the shafts in it as well, but I can't be sure. Just going on what I was told. The point is, I'm gonna be dumping some $$$ into the D60 to get it useable. There is NO free lunch.

1" ORD zero rates all around...less than $150 delivered.
1" ORD body lift and new bushings...Less than $200 delivered.

2" of lift and probably some much needed maintenance for less than $400 and some time.

Eh... I think 33's will fit without lift. For now I'm on the street, so tire-rub shouldn't be a problem...at least I think so.

Then get the cutting disc out and make room for 38's!

Hey now... This will be a DD for some time to come. For now I have to fit inside a parking deck at work, I think the height restriction on the parking deck is 6'7", and right now the truck is pushing 6'3" probably.

Well, that's my plan at least. Right now I have a stock height 1 ton with minorly trimmed fenders running 34-35" tall 36's.

Well, I think a 14BFF alone *should* add a tiny amount of lift (bigger tubes = perches further away from the centerline of the axle), but not enough to be significant. Like I said, I still have to be able to fit it in the parking deck...for now.

But there's a significant amount of work to be done otherwise on the K5...floors, new cam, etc... It gets 11mpg on the highway with 3.73's, that's the cam's fault so it's got to be swapped before I'll use it as a DD again. Still, you got me thinking...

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Any idea of what gears it has now? Yours is prime for when they were running all those stupid highway gear ratios. I personally feel that no ratio lower than 3.73 belongs on a fullsize truck with a V8...whether it makes 150hp or 400hp. GM put all these 3.55, 3.42, 3.08, and even 2.xx stuff in these 4x4 trucks in the 80's and they all got what...13-14mpg around town instead of 12-13mpg?
Sorry, personal rant of mine.

Yeah, even if the D60 needs work...it's a D60! I know people who have spent over a grand for a D60 that needed complete rebuilding. I gave up and bought a whole 1 ton truck and was done with it.

33's will indeed fit with no lift. 33x12.5R15's can be done with little to no rubbing and trimming if you run them on 15x8's with conservative backspacing (3.5-4" ish, similar to the factory wheels) or just put them on factory wheels. However good luck getting 15's to fit over those huge 1 ton 14FF drums.
You can also run narrow 33's like 285/75R16 and 255/85R16 if you run them on commonly available 16x7 wheels with similar backspacing. Keeps the tires inside the wheel wells and away from the fenders. I researched this a lot a while back when I was going to get a stock CUCV but then I ended up with mine already on 36's.

Hell, just trim to fit 35's. Guys have done it on here and the amount of trimming necessary to to fit 35's on a stock suspension isn't all that bad. If you flex the piss out of it they will rub but hey, it's a daily not a rock crawler.
I used to know a guy with a K5 from somewhere that it got rust but not as bad as they typically are here in Michigan. At some point somebody had fixed the rust by just trimming it off and rolling the fender lip up. He could fit 35's all day long and it didn't look all that bad. Was only 2" taller than stock as well.

 

[DieselDan]

If it's an automatic it's a TH400.
SOME of the M1028 pickups had SM465 manual trannies that came with NP205's. Also, SOME of the M1028's with TH400's came with a NP205 as well...they needed the PTO for whatever option the military wanted them for.

Sorry, no CUCV every came with a SM465. They all were TH400. The M1031 came with the NP205 along with (IIRC) M1028A1 and the M1028A3. The PTO was needed to run a generator. Also the M1028A2 and the M1028A3 were the dually variant so they had the Dana 70 rear axle instead of the 14bolt FF.

 

[jonrpick]

Any idea of what gears it has now? Yours is prime for when they were running all those stupid highway gear ratios. I personally feel that no ratio lower than 3.73 belongs on a fullsize truck with a V8...whether it makes 150hp or 400hp. GM put all these 3.55, 3.42, 3.08, and even 2.xx stuff in these 4x4 trucks in the 80's and they all got what...13-14mpg around town instead of 12-13mpg?
Sorry, personal rant of mine.

Stock it came with 3.08's, and the front axle still has that ratio--I just haven't used it since the 3.73 rear went in (and then died). With the 3.08's and my old 305ci motor, I used to pull about 17-18 on the highway. It was *really* working the motor though. I had to keep my foot down enough to almost make it downshift from OD to D.

Yeah, even if the D60 needs work...it's a D60! I know people who have spent over a grand for a D60 that needed complete rebuilding. I gave up and bought a whole 1 ton truck and was done with it.

Yeah, I plan to keep and build the D60. Not gonna install it immediately.

Concerning the 14BFF...Honestly, those 4.56's still seem a bit low for my uses. Yeah, with 31's it'd pull a house down for sure, but that's a bit much. I pulled a car-dolly with a Toyota Camry on it with the old 305 and 3.08 gears, so I think once the 350 is re-cammed and I get a working 3.73 set in the back, I'd be fine for pulling a trailer.

Plus, if I was able to sell it and get a 3/4 ton version, I wouldn't need to relocate the spring and shock mounts.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Sorry, no CUCV every came with a SM465. They all were TH400. The M1031 came with the NP205 along with (IIRC) M1028A1 and the M1028A3. The PTO was needed to run a generator. Also the M1028A2 and the M1028A3 were the dually variant so they had the Dana 70 rear axle instead of the 14bolt FF.

Wanna bet? Go over to www.SteelSoldiers.com and ask around. There's a couple on there. They aren't common but they were made.
In fact there was one in my squadron's motor pool when I was in the Marines 8 years or so ago. Never drove it because I couldn't drive a stick then. Only came in the 1028's and other trucks that had the uprated GVWR over the M1008's. The SM465's also came with the front limited slip.



jonrpick, keep in mind my stock '92 Blazer K1500 with the TBI350 and 700R4 got about 20mpg on the highway with 32" tires and 3.73 gears. Highway gears are a waste under a 4-5000lb 4x4 truck with the aerodynamics of a brick.

Also, shock and spring mounts can be moved for cheap.

Low gears, heavy duty axles, D or E rated 33-35" tires, and you've got a towing machine that can one day easily be a big tired wheeler. Anything else and you're working for a solution that's good for now but you'll undo a lot of later. Well, I've had my say and you know my thoughts.

 

[JEBSR]

I build an engine and trans for a buddy of mine a few years ago. When we decided on a gear swap I recommended 410/411's, he went with 456's. I really thought it would be to much gear for the highway but was very pleasantly surprised when I towed a 77 Chevy from Ga. to Ky a month later using his rig. It was a 95 Z71 step side with an 383/4L60E/241? combo with 33 12.50 15 tires. Best pulling dd that I have ever used to tow with.

 

[jonrpick]

jonrpick, keep in mind my stock '92 Blazer K1500 with the TBI350 and 700R4 got about 20mpg on the highway with 32" tires and 3.73 gears. Highway gears are a waste under a 4-5000lb 4x4 truck with the aerodynamics of a brick.

Oh, I agree completely. I know that keeping your foot down on an underpowered engine can get worse gas mileage than a larger motor that up for the task. I'm hoping that the new cam and 3.73s will strike a good balance between power and economy.

Also, shock and spring mounts can be moved for cheap.

I'm sure that's true... I haven't looked around, and don't know what kind of shop to call to get that work done, but I'm sure it's not terribly expensive. My problem is that the only vehicle I have that can easily transport axles or even pull a trailer is the K5, which is down for the count. My girlfriend's Tahoe could do it, but I'd have to go get a towing package installed, and I really don't want to spend the money for that...then I'd either have to rent or buy a trailer, because she's not keen on the idea of dirty truck parts being in the back of her vehicle.

Low gears, heavy duty axles, D or E rated 33-35" tires, and you've got a towing machine that can one day easily be a big tired wheeler. Anything else and you're working for a solution that's good for now but you'll undo a lot of later. Well, I've had my say and you know my thoughts.

Yes, and I'm glad to hear your opinions. That's why I'm here. For now, my needs as a 'wheeler are fairly basic. For now, 35" tires and a rear locker would pretty much do whatever I want it to. I'm not into highly technical wheeling. I prefer easy trails with great scenery, preferably when they lead to a nice camping spot...not huge rocks or big mud puddles (although I like getting it dirty every now and then ) However, I've yet to experience tougher stuff, and my likes and dislikes, and hence my needs may one day change.

I'm sure I'll end up asking a bunch more questions before this whole thing is over!

Thanks,