NEK5
3/4 ton status
Manny, you already know my stance on the shackle flip. It will probably eliminate the need for that shim, and will take "some" of the cement truck feeling away. Well worth it IMHO.gmc4cw said:
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Manny's 83 K10 (INDEX)(56K) Manny answers his critics and FALSE ACCUSATIONS
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YZEATER
1/2 ton status
drill them out to use 1/2" bolts. if you clock the t-case it's not going to change the angle of the rear output. only after you get everything else done, should you worry about the driveshafts- clocking/removing spacers/adding shims. the shackle flip will help. it will angle the pinion upward, give you a "little" flex. you would also need a zero rate to move the axle back so it's centered in the wheel well, since this is a pretty truck.
MuddinManny said:
clocking will only change the front output of the t-case. a shackle flip will help. it may not get you all the degrees you might need but it will change your pinion angle since the front of your spring stays stationary while the rear is dropped.
Really you need to start with the position of the t-case. everything else will be determined by that. If you are going to leave the t-case lowered thats fine, but the spacers you have now are destined to cause a failure. you have a longbed so the rear shaft angle will not be hugely effected by raising the case back up. the front shaft will have a better angle if you raise the case back up.
If you are having a rear CV shaft made then lowering the t-case is pointless. the minor change in angle it gains you can easily be overcome by the CV joint.
Determine the final mounting of your T-case, then set your rear pinion angle however you want, then take your final measurements for your driveshafts.
jsut run 12* shims in the rear, unless u know a guy who can weld
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Manny,
Once you fix the x-case, the angle might not be 12 deg anymore. Doesn't someone make a shorter shackle flip than 4"? I was surprised at how much my angle changed after adding the flip kit from ORD. It was almost perfect for use with a CV shaft.
FYI, I cut off my spring perches a few weeks ago (The PO had some kind of issue that caused one to collapse
) and welded new ones on at the right angle for the CV shaft. It's really not that difficult for even a newbie welder (like me). It took me about 4 hours. Maybe you can rent one somewhere?
I had a differential shop quote me $75 to re-weld the perches. Keep looking around, you'll find someone. Maybe an auto-body repair shop?
Once you fix the x-case, the angle might not be 12 deg anymore. Doesn't someone make a shorter shackle flip than 4"? I was surprised at how much my angle changed after adding the flip kit from ORD. It was almost perfect for use with a CV shaft.
FYI, I cut off my spring perches a few weeks ago (The PO had some kind of issue that caused one to collapse
) and welded new ones on at the right angle for the CV shaft. It's really not that difficult for even a newbie welder (like me). It took me about 4 hours. Maybe you can rent one somewhere?I had a differential shop quote me $75 to re-weld the perches. Keep looking around, you'll find someone. Maybe an auto-body repair shop?
85mudbogger
1/2 ton status
Got a die grinder with some small cut off wheels, just cut em off then grind down the weld left on the housing, took me 6 cut off wheels and about an hour and a half and then using my stick welder to weld em back on, add some paint, and ur peerrrty truck is good to go, relatively easy to do, u can pick up the small grinder at wally world for like 20 buxs. Over and out. good luck
X2 with a double CV rear shaft you want the pinion to be 1-3 degrees down to account for axle wrapgmc4cw said:
manny. i think i have an idea..... get a set of 2 inch blocks and shave off the amount needed to make 12* make your own tapered blocks i guess. just a little trig you know... in my head it works.
like this maybe?
like this maybe?
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
Manny DIY4x sells perches for a 14 bolt and they are 1" taller than what you have so you could in theory get rid of the block. Once you have the old perches removed installing the new ones is quite easy.
Place perches on the axle tube and set the axle in place and loosley tighten the Ubolts. By loosley I mean by hand. Put the weight of the rig on the axle with wheels on the ground. Use a floor jack or bottle jack to rotate the pinion to the angle you want/need. Tack both perches in place. Remove the axle and weld to final.
Make sure you are taking measurements constantly to ensure the axle is in the proper location left to right in the rig. I know a welder is something you do not have but there has to be someone in the area that has one you can use for an hour or so.
Ira
Place perches on the axle tube and set the axle in place and loosley tighten the Ubolts. By loosley I mean by hand. Put the weight of the rig on the axle with wheels on the ground. Use a floor jack or bottle jack to rotate the pinion to the angle you want/need. Tack both perches in place. Remove the axle and weld to final.
Make sure you are taking measurements constantly to ensure the axle is in the proper location left to right in the rig. I know a welder is something you do not have but there has to be someone in the area that has one you can use for an hour or so.
Ira
Put a call out in your regional forum. Enough people have at least a limited knowledge of your build; I'll bet someone would help you out. Also check some of your local wheelin' boards.
Ira covered pretty much the meat of it. You can get an angle finder pretty cheap from Home Depot. Here's a pretty good read on driveshaft angles: http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html
And if your spending $1400 on driveshafts from HAD, I wouldn't hesitate to call Jess and ask for all the tech knowledge you need. Sometimes you just have to not be afraid to ask the "stupid" questions.
Ira covered pretty much the meat of it. You can get an angle finder pretty cheap from Home Depot. Here's a pretty good read on driveshaft angles: http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html
And if your spending $1400 on driveshafts from HAD, I wouldn't hesitate to call Jess and ask for all the tech knowledge you need. Sometimes you just have to not be afraid to ask the "stupid" questions.
sandawgk5 said:
thats exactly how I would do it.
Also ORD makes a 2.5" flip. same as their 4" but less lift. I have a set on my truck.
Just like the rest off the build you need to take this one step at a time. the trucks not going anywhere till its done, so there is no rush. You have showed extreme patience so far. The payoff is going to be huge for you.
sandawgk5 said:
What Ira said
Manny this is my first post here, but I have been reading along the whole time in between all my detachments for work. Makes for good reading in between the flight schedule while at work too.
Anyway I agree with moving the perches as well. It's less trouble in the long run. shims are a pain, and only a band-aid in my opinion. As mentioned above somebody in your area should know how to weld. What about machinists from work or anything? I say move the case up, and re-do your measurements then cut and weld new perches. It's not as much work as it seems. I took my 14 bolt out 3 times last week by myself doing suspension driveline stuff. Beleive me it's worth doing it right the first time. I have been eating u-joints and fighting vibrations for a long time before I decided to re-do my rear suspension. Just my 2 cents.
Congrats on the progress thus far. Your truck is coming along very fast. It took most of us here years to have the stuff you have piece by piece. Your thread motivated me to start my 60 build finally. It's been sitting for 2 months all rusty and gunky, today it is a bare housing ready to be cleaned and painted.
Keep up the good work, and well ya cant PM me since my membership ran out, but my e-mail is bhersh21 at Yahoo if ya need anything. I am off all week and I can e-mail ya my #.
Brian
Good to hear Manny
As far as exhaust interference. I am not sure with the first position, but those clocked all the way up and duals you really have to tuck the exhaust against the frame rail on the pass side. It will be a trial and error thing. If there is interference you could remove that section and have a new section welded in by an exhaust shop to go around the T-case. I did this with my Y-pipe and it was like $20 just to have a new piece of pipe bent and welded in.
There shouldnt be any interference by putting the X-member back up to the frame. It will help the firewall/distributer clearance as the back of the motor will move up/forward. There shouldnt be much if any shroud interference unless the new stuff is real close.
The mounts and everything will line up the same. It just moves the section of the case with the front output up. Everything else stays the same. You may have to tweak your linkage, but I am not sure for the first position. I am sure somebody else will chime in here.
It's easy to pull the case out by yourself. After you drain the fluid it only weighs about 70 pounds. I usually just lay on my back and slide it off the output of the tranny then lower it down. The hardest part is your truck is tall so I hope you have long arms Leave the tranny there just remember to support the engine/tranny when you remove the X-member so the distributer doesnt hit the firewall. Use a jack with a 2x4 under the trans pan.
Oh yeah you mentioned getting poly T-case mounts and I am not sure if anybody said it or not, but you need to run poly motor mounts as well so the deflection under torque is the same. Just a tip.
Keep up the good work!!!
Brian
As far as exhaust interference. I am not sure with the first position, but those clocked all the way up and duals you really have to tuck the exhaust against the frame rail on the pass side. It will be a trial and error thing. If there is interference you could remove that section and have a new section welded in by an exhaust shop to go around the T-case. I did this with my Y-pipe and it was like $20 just to have a new piece of pipe bent and welded in.
There shouldnt be any interference by putting the X-member back up to the frame. It will help the firewall/distributer clearance as the back of the motor will move up/forward. There shouldnt be much if any shroud interference unless the new stuff is real close.
The mounts and everything will line up the same. It just moves the section of the case with the front output up. Everything else stays the same. You may have to tweak your linkage, but I am not sure for the first position. I am sure somebody else will chime in here.
It's easy to pull the case out by yourself. After you drain the fluid it only weighs about 70 pounds. I usually just lay on my back and slide it off the output of the tranny then lower it down. The hardest part is your truck is tall so I hope you have long arms
Leave the tranny there just remember to support the engine/tranny when you remove the X-member so the distributer doesnt hit the firewall. Use a jack with a 2x4 under the trans pan.Oh yeah you mentioned getting poly T-case mounts and I am not sure if anybody said it or not, but you need to run poly motor mounts as well so the deflection under torque is the same. Just a tip.
Keep up the good work!!!
Brian
It shouldnt be too bad to keep it at the hobby shop on the base for a day or two. If you have the outdoor stalls use jacks and jackstands instead of the lift to cut down on daily cost. I know our is only a few bucks a day to use the outdoor stalls. Something else you may want to look into at out base we have people that work at the hobby shop that do welding...maybe get it all done at one place.
Also, the hobby shop can be a resource for someone with welding experience to help you out. I made friends with a guy in Va. Beach at one of the Navy hobby shops there who hooked me up with some top notch sheet metal welding. He is a Nuke welder by trade, and does some auto hobby stuff on the off hours.
View attachment 43179
So, ask around your hobby shop, you might be surprised what you find. If you have someone to do the welding and the parts in hand, you shouldn't need to have the truck on jackstands overnight.
View attachment 43179
So, ask around your hobby shop, you might be surprised what you find. If you have someone to do the welding and the parts in hand, you shouldn't need to have the truck on jackstands overnight.
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here is how I would install the clocking ring. assuming the driveshafts are already unhooked.
-drain the fluid out of the t-case.
-unhook the speedo cable and linkage,
-remove the side support if you still have it (2 large bolts)
-remove the 6 bolts holding the t-case to the adapter, the t-case will not -fall off, it's still held on by the input shaft. it will most likely rotate clockwise down under it's own weight
-remove the t-case,
-rebuild whatever needs it,
-install the clocking ring to the t-case,
while you have the t-case off install your new bushings. having the t-case off give you lots of room to sit under your truck and work instead of laying on your back.
-reinstall the t-case on the back of the trans adapter. it may or may not go easily since there are now studs sticking out.
-install the nuts on the studs.
-reinstall the linkage
-now is the time to remove the spacers from the crossmember, leaving them till last gives you a little extra room to work between the t-case and the floor.
when you raise the crossmember simply support it with a floor jack, loosen the bolts on both sides, remove them from one side and jack up the x-member enough to put shorter bolts in. remove the other side bolts, jack up more and install the new shorter bolts on that side. tighten everything and your down.
-drain the fluid out of the t-case.
-unhook the speedo cable and linkage,
-remove the side support if you still have it (2 large bolts)
-remove the 6 bolts holding the t-case to the adapter, the t-case will not -fall off, it's still held on by the input shaft. it will most likely rotate clockwise down under it's own weight
-remove the t-case,
-rebuild whatever needs it,
-install the clocking ring to the t-case,
while you have the t-case off install your new bushings. having the t-case off give you lots of room to sit under your truck and work instead of laying on your back.
-reinstall the t-case on the back of the trans adapter. it may or may not go easily since there are now studs sticking out.
-install the nuts on the studs.
-reinstall the linkage
-now is the time to remove the spacers from the crossmember, leaving them till last gives you a little extra room to work between the t-case and the floor.
when you raise the crossmember simply support it with a floor jack, loosen the bolts on both sides, remove them from one side and jack up the x-member enough to put shorter bolts in. remove the other side bolts, jack up more and install the new shorter bolts on that side. tighten everything and your down.
how much is the rebuild kit? In my area I can get a 208 fairly cheap. If I break one or something wears out I just replace the entire case. That fact that trucks rot away quickly from road salt might have something to do with the cheap price.
Here's my write-up on installing a DIY4x clocking ring. I also just went to the first holes. Tcase clocking article
I had my exhaust made to clear the tcase, but there's plenty of room with it clocked up one hole.
Yes poly mounts for motor and tranny.
I had my exhaust made to clear the tcase, but there's plenty of room with it clocked up one hole.
Yes poly mounts for motor and tranny.
SkysTheLimit
1/2 ton status
MuddinManny said:
The reason you're having to move the perches is because you're going to run a CV style rear driveshaft. They put all the angles in the CV section wereas normally you have 1 angle at the TC and 1 at the pinion. This is why you have to point the pinion at the TC. With the stock style shaft you would only be angling your pinion a couple degrees which would easily be done with some shims.
CV is definately the way to go but ya, it's a little more involved. Hang in there and you'll have a rig that shouldn't let you down ever.
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