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mechanical fuel pump question..

diesel4me

diesel4me

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Anyone know if a fuel pump from a small block chevy V8 will fit & work on a 6.2 ?...just curious..I know the block off plate from one will fit on a 6.2..but I dont know if the rocker arm and "throw" is the same or close enough to work..

Just wondering ,in the event you were somewhere out in the boonies and your mechanical pump craps out--chances of any parts store having the "correct" pump for a 6.2 in stock would be slim--but you can get one for a SBC pretty much anywhere..

I did read on one site after google searching one person stated you "can use one in a pinch"--but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually done it..
 
diesel4me said:
Anyone know if a fuel pump from a small block chevy V8 will fit & work on a 6.2 ?...just curious..I know the block off plate from one will fit on a 6.2..but I dont know if the rocker arm and "throw" is the same or close enough to work..

Just wondering ,in the event you were somewhere out in the boonies and your mechanical pump craps out--chances of any parts store having the "correct" pump for a 6.2 in stock would be slim--but you can get one for a SBC pretty much anywhere..

I did read on one site after google searching one person stated you "can use one in a pinch"--but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually done it..
Click to expand...
I just pulled one out of my dead 6.2, I will see if I can one from a gasser to compare
 
If I was stranded with a failed fuel pump (and I have been twice), I would simply buy a much more common electric lift pump and ditch the mechanical pump entirely. The mechanical pump is a pain to change, a pain to bleed, and painfully unreliable.
 
campfire said:
If I was stranded with a failed fuel pump (and I have been twice), I would simply buy a much more common electric lift pump and ditch the mechanical pump entirely. The mechanical pump is a pain to change, a pain to bleed, and painfully unreliable.
Click to expand...
Actually 2 out of 3.
It's as reliable if not better than the electric.
The rest you're right.
 
350,000 on my stock fuel pump on Smokey , and my local Napa has 2 in stock . Which is 2 more then they have of the small block Chevy pumps .

The last mechanical fuel pump on a small block was 86 . The 6.2/6.5 went all the way into 2000 ( and later in some applications)

That being said I agree with campy , I’d just put an electric on it if it failed .

On my 83 burb I installed a FASS fuel system and eliminated the stock pump . It starts quicker and primes much easier now .
 
imiceman44 said:
Actually 2 out of 3.
It's as reliable if not better than the electric.
The rest you're right.
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how you look at it. With a failed electric lift pump, a good 6.2 will still run. With a failed diaphragm pump you could be sucking air bubbles or dumping fuel into the crank case. Both of which are more significant issues than the loss of fuel pressure you'd get with a failed electric pump.

Both styles of pump held up for a while when they were new. But I'd take a new electric pump over an old mechanical pump any day of the week.

Plus, I can install my spare electric pump faster than I can install my spare mechanical pump.
 
yellowK20 said:
The last mechanical fuel pump on a small block was 86 . The 6.2/6.5 went all the way into 2000 ( and later in some applications)
Click to expand...

The GMT400 trucks started using external electric lift pumps on 6.2 engines in 1988 (when they first came out). The squarebodies kept using mechanical pumps, but I hafta imagine GM had a reason for moving away from them. They could have kept the mechanical pump if they had wanted.

It wasn't even needing that spot for the turbine oil return line, as that wasn't out yet.
 
I thought some years used both the electric assist lift pump and a mechanical pump on the engine ?...

My truck had one of those electric pumps that looks like a fuel filter mounted just above the fuel tank ,(very similar to the factory one used on later GMT 400 trucks )--I had it plumbed in tandem with the mechanical pump and the engine did run noticeable better with the electric pump running all the time,feeding the lift pump on the engine..idled smoother,a bit faster,and had better acceleration..and bleeding a new filter was quick & easy..

But two months ago that electric pump croaked,after 16 years,and I think it had stopped pumping intermittently for awhile before it died for good,the truck acted like it was out of fuel a few times going uphill..(one wire got so hot it melted ,came right out of the pump ,and it didn't even pop the 5 amp fuse! :eek:)..

Right away I could tell that pump wasn't pumping,the engine now felt "flat" when you climbed a hill,instead of gaining speed,sometimes it would feel like it "ran out of gas" and was going to stall,so I had to back off the throttle--it also had to be cranked a lot longer to get it to start,and after I removed the electric pump and by-passed it,it really became a bear to start.

Also it also began smoking out the exhaust (both banks) after a cold start and wanted to die at idle until it warmed up some,or run like a engine with a dead cylinder at idle if it didn't stall,you have to keep it at a fast idle 2-3 minutes now ,and it will eventually stop belching smoke and clear out--once it warms up,it runs as well as it ever did,with no smoke..

I suppose the mechanical pump might be dying,seeing its been on it 16 years I have owned the truck..but it acts more like its flooded after a cold start,than lacking fuel..(the cold start advance is working,I have that on a manual switch)..The fuel may be crap,I did drain the filter though,and the sample I got from it doesn't appear polluted or watery..stinks like tar when it smokes..:dunno:

I do want to put an electric pump back on it for easier bleeding of the fuel system when I change the filter,this is the main reason I have not put on the new filter yet..--as well as leave the mechanical pump on it, like it's been all along..but I know replacing the pump on the engine is a sucky job,at least for me it is..lying under the truck for ten minutes to put an electric pump back is something I can handle..bending over under a hood kills me..

I don't like the fact the mechanical pump can let fuel fill the crankcase should the diaphragm fail,especially with an electric pump feeding it 5+ psi,but its not a very common thing for the diaphragm to fail..
A new mechanical lift pump is like $20...

I'd run just an electric pump alone,but I don't have a lot of faith in them,I have had two others fail rapidly on other things I put them on--the only ones for sale locally are the crappy Mr.Gasket ones and Holley clones of them for 60+ bucks,that is a complete rip off,they suck and fail rapidly,I have had 2 fail on me and several friends that had no luck with them,and they were installed correctly,close to the tank,etc..it's like they need gravity feed to work right ?..

I can get a pump like what was on the truck online from various sources for anywhere from $7 to about $35,how "good" those are is a mystery too,but for the price I'd buy 2 or 3 of them to have as spares,rather than waste $60 on a Holley or Mr.Gasket hunk of crap....the reviews on many of the electric pumps are mostly negative though,that doesn't inspire much confidence in using only an electric one alone..

I'm torn whether to even do anything to the 6.2 now that the rest of the truck needs to have a lot of work done to keep it roadworthy..the laundry list of woes the engine has now grown is to the point it would be easier to yank it out to replace the oil pan,rotted exhaust manifold,lift pump,etc..truck needs inner fenders,some welding on the spring hangers and a few spots on the frame should be reinforced..

I may have wounded it with starting fluid a few weeks ago,after I had to use that to get it to run long enough to prime the fuel system is when it really started acting up after a cold start..so I hate to dump money in the 6.2 only to have it grenade shortly afterwards,I would rather put that money towards a gas engine for it..
Or it may end up just being a "yard truck" and keep the diesel running as is as long as possible..

I'm starting to focus on getting my van going to hopefully use this summer,so I can take the truck off the road and either fix it up,or decide if its worth it to me to beat myself up restoring it or not..
I may find something similar in better shape that needs less work,that is what I'm hoping for..
 
campfire said:
The GMT400 trucks started using external electric lift pumps on 6.2 engines in 1988 (when they first came out). The squarebodies kept using mechanical pumps, but I hafta imagine GM had a reason for moving away from them. They could have kept the mechanical pump if they had wanted.

It wasn't even needing that spot for the turbine oil return line, as that wasn't out yet.
Click to expand...


Don’t forget the Humvee, they stuck with mechanical pump , not sure on the P400’s but I know the 6.2 and 6.5 ‘s used a mechanical pump both Smokey and the 83 burb have optimizers that were humvee takeouts.
 
Yesterday I drove the truck about 5 miles to get groceries--it did the usual 3-4 minutes of white smoking after the cold start and refused to idle without stalling till I held it at fast idle for a few minutes..after I drove it a few miles it ran "normal",no smoking,and since it was all back roads with a 30 mph speed limit,I didn't notice any sign of it starving for fuel..got there and home OK..

Well,today I drove the truck about 5 miles to a friends place and I felt it starving for fuel or "flattening" as I accelerated to 50 mph,and it felt like it was going to stall out completely,so I had to put the 4 way flashers on and limp along the shoulder ,keeping my foot barely on the throttle..it "recovered" and surged and gained speed,but still wasn't running like it normally does..

After I arrived at my friends place,the truck sat abut a half hour,then I had to move it so he could move a car I had blocked in..truck started right up,but stalled,and I had to crank it quite a bit to get it to fire up again..ran ragged for a minute,then slowly improved..

About another hour later,I again had to move it,because I was in someone's parking spot..this time it stalled as soon as I let off the throttle,and again,I had to crank it over about 10-15 seconds before it started again..I revved it up a few times,and was able to move it ,but it was running weird,like some cylinders were not firing consistently..

Two hours later it was time to head home,and the truck started up and smoked a minute or two and did the usual weird "lope" at idle,and I drove off--almost immediately it flattened out,and wouldn't accelerate,and I feared I'd be stranded there--I feathered the gas pedal and crawled to a gas station up the road about 1/2 a mile,and decided I'd better fill it up--I had been holding off,so it would use up as much in the tank as possible,in case the fuel was polluted or dirty..

It took all of the $40 I had on me,and had room for more,I put in almost 14 gallons,so it probably still had 4-5 gallons left..
I normally keep it topped off,because the fuel gauge doesn't work..
I fill it every 100 miles or so typically..

Truck started right up when I left the gas station--but all the way home it threatened to die,it flattened out on every incline or when I had to take off from a stop--crawled home with the 4 ways blinking the whole 4 miles at 35 mph,with it feeling like the fuel filter was plugged up..

I did get it home though,and decided I had no choice but to put the new fuel filter on it--I had not wanted to risk getting air in the system again,after what I'd gone thru before back in February when it was below 20 degrees ,and have to use ether to get it primed--I wanted to hold off until I got an electric fuel pump,so priming would be easy..also if the fuel was contaminated,I hated to dirty up a new filter,they ain't cheap..but I had little choice now..

I pinched off the fuel line at the fuel tank and the line from the mechanical pump to the injector pump with vise grips,then drained the filter into a can--what came out didn't look bad to me,but I didn't have a nice glass jar to drain it in either.all I had was an empty water bottle--the fuel did look yellowish instead of the typical green color,and it might have some water in it,it was not perfectly clear-more like slightly cloudy..I had put some of the 9-1-1 stuff in the tank a week ago,maybe that made it look different ?.

I'm going to let it settle overnight and see if any water sinks to the bottom in the morning..

I changed the filter anyway..I filled it up with some "Rescue 9-1-1 " and the rest Dexron ATF,as I had no diesel handy ,it all went in the tank..

It started right up to my surprise,and I kept it racing about 2500 rpm until it got past the air ,it did bog down and surge a few times,then cleared out--I let it idle about 10 minutes while I cleaned up the tools and mess,and then took it for a blast down my street..

It accelerated good at first,but when I left it floored in second gear,I felt it flatten out again--it still does the same dam thing,and though it did seem a bit better--I cant trust the truck anywhere with it threatening to die on me ..and I had places I wanted to go tomorrow and the next week..:angry1:..

I don't know whether to throw more money away on an electric pump ,and or the mechanical pump,when it may not end up any better--if its the injector pump that's dying ,I'm not going to fix the 6.2...F***K that thing..
I'm just sick of it...and sicker of not being able to go anywhere or do anything without a reliable set of wheels...:mad2:
 
diesel4me said:
Yesterday I drove the truck about 5 miles to get groceries--it did the usual 3-4 minutes of white smoking after the cold start and refused to idle without stalling till I held it at fast idle for a few minutes..after I drove it a few miles it ran "normal",no smoking,and since it was all back roads with a 30 mph speed limit,I didn't notice any sign of it starving for fuel..got there and home OK..

Well,today I drove the truck about 5 miles to a friends place and I felt it starving for fuel or "flattening" as I accelerated to 50 mph,and it felt like it was going to stall out completely,so I had to put the 4 way flashers on and limp along the shoulder ,keeping my foot barely on the throttle..it "recovered" and surged and gained speed,but still wasn't running like it normally does..

After I arrived at my friends place,the truck sat abut a half hour,then I had to move it so he could move a car I had blocked in..truck started right up,but stalled,and I had to crank it quite a bit to get it to fire up again..ran ragged for a minute,then slowly improved..

About another hour later,I again had to move it,because I was in someone's parking spot..this time it stalled as soon as I let off the throttle,and again,I had to crank it over about 10-15 seconds before it started again..I revved it up a few times,and was able to move it ,but it was running weird,like some cylinders were not firing consistently..

Two hours later it was time to head home,and the truck started up and smoked a minute or two and did the usual weird "lope" at idle,and I drove off--almost immediately it flattened out,and wouldn't accelerate,and I feared I'd be stranded there--I feathered the gas pedal and crawled to a gas station up the road about 1/2 a mile,and decided I'd better fill it up--I had been holding off,so it would use up as much in the tank as possible,in case the fuel was polluted or dirty..

It took all of the $40 I had on me,and had room for more,I put in almost 14 gallons,so it probably still had 4-5 gallons left..
I normally keep it topped off,because the fuel gauge doesn't work..
I fill it every 100 miles or so typically..

Truck started right up when I left the gas station--but all the way home it threatened to die,it flattened out on every incline or when I had to take off from a stop--crawled home with the 4 ways blinking the whole 4 miles at 35 mph,with it feeling like the fuel filter was plugged up..

I did get it home though,and decided I had no choice but to put the new fuel filter on it--I had not wanted to risk getting air in the system again,after what I'd gone thru before back in February when it was below 20 degrees ,and have to use ether to get it primed--I wanted to hold off until I got an electric fuel pump,so priming would be easy..also if the fuel was contaminated,I hated to dirty up a new filter,they ain't cheap..but I had little choice now..

I pinched off the fuel line at the fuel tank and the line from the mechanical pump to the injector pump with vise grips,then drained the filter into a can--what came out didn't look bad to me,but I didn't have a nice glass jar to drain it in either.all I had was an empty water bottle--the fuel did look yellowish instead of the typical green color,and it might have some water in it,it was not perfectly clear-more like slightly cloudy..I had put some of the 9-1-1 stuff in the tank a week ago,maybe that made it look different ?.

I'm going to let it settle overnight and see if any water sinks to the bottom in the morning..

I changed the filter anyway..I filled it up with some "Rescue 9-1-1 " and the rest Dexron ATF,as I had no diesel handy ,it all went in the tank..

It started right up to my surprise,and I kept it racing about 2500 rpm until it got past the air ,it did bog down and surge a few times,then cleared out--I let it idle about 10 minutes while I cleaned up the tools and mess,and then took it for a blast down my street..

It accelerated good at first,but when I left it floored in second gear,I felt it flatten out again--it still does the same dam thing,and though it did seem a bit better--I cant trust the truck anywhere with it threatening to die on me ..and I had places I wanted to go tomorrow and the next week..:angry1:..

I don't know whether to throw more money away on an electric pump ,and or the mechanical pump,when it may not end up any better--if its the injector pump that's dying ,I'm not going to fix the 6.2...F***K that thing..
I'm just sick of it...and sicker of not being able to go anywhere or do anything without a reliable set of wheels...:mad2:
Click to expand...


Robert, this sounds like a textbook case of a pinhole leak on the suction side of the fuel system. If the (electric) lift pump is pushing fluid fast enough, the air bubbles will return to the tank via the overflow line, and you may never notice. Until the pump dies, and then then the slower-moving bubbles enter the IP and start stalling out cylinders one at a time. That's why it will sometimes run normally and then fall flat on its face. With sealed fuel lines, the DB2 injection pump doesn't *need* a lift pump in order to run (and many a tractor engine has a gravity-fed DB2 or Roosa-Master injection pump). But old fuel systems leak. It's really hard for your engine to burn air.

Your failed electric pump has put you in a place where air bubbles are no longer being forced back to the tank like they were, particularly on startup (the mechanical pump can't prime the system ahead of time). The easiest fix is to replace the electric pump. You may find that the mechanical pump is the source of the problem. Or it may be a line somewhere. It doesn't sound like a failing injection pump. You'd see variations in timing or the engine might experience abrupt stops (like you turned the key off, not like it ran short on fuel). Your problem sounds simpler.

I will give the obligatory Proposition 65 warning that a 37-year-old truck is 100% guaranteed to break, and it will break significantly more often than the average newer vehicle, and be more expensive to own in the long run.
 
campfire said:
I will give the obligatory Proposition 65 warning that a 37-year-old truck is 100% guaranteed to break, and it will break significantly more often than the average newer vehicle, and be more expensive to own in the long run.
Click to expand...

No No No , this is totally because it’s a 6.2 diesel . If it was 1955 265 V8 with points ignition it would run flawlessly for 75 years and start at -100 and never use oil and you could buy parts for a nickel at every gas station, oh and never have to do basic maintenance like oil and filter changes .
 
I'd much rather have a gas V8 at this point..after the 16 years of service this 6.2 has given,I cant bitch about it after what I have put it thru,but I'm just sick of diesels in general..

And yes,I've had several old 283's,307's and 350's,a 400 SB,all of them ran pretty much flawlessly without much maintenence,about all I had to do to them was regular oil & filter changes and a tune up once a year or so..sure,a water pump or fuel pump went on them once in a while,I consider those items a breeze to replace compared to a 6.2 and cost a lot less..

I carried a spare starter and distributor with me in all those vehicles,that way if an ignition module or pick up coil failed,I could drop in the spare and get home..I do not recall ever having to use them..

I balk at buying an electric pump and possibly have it not run any better,and I'll still be waiting for the crank to snap if it did happen to "fix it" and it ran decent again,every mile I put on it..

I just have very low faith in this diesel,knowing it came from a salvage yard and don't know what else it was put thru long before I got it....and I'm tired of dealing with diesel's quirks..the engine has enough other issues I've listed already to justify removing it to fix them now anyways..

At least a 1955 265 V8 would start after it ran out of gas with a 10 second crank session,instead of dicking around for an hour trying to bleed the diesel's fuel system,killing the batteries ,maybe roach a starter too...and if it's fuel pump died,you could rig a gravity feed tank to the carb and get home..


I do not have any air leaks in the fuel hoses far as I can tell..
Perhaps a hose may be collapsing internally,but I doubt it--they were replaced not so long ago..there are few splices,90% of the main fuel feed line from the tank is copper, and where there is a splice ,I double clamped them..

A guy I spoke with with some diesel experience suggested I put a clear hose on the IP return line (my burb has one),and try blowing compressed air thru the return line to make sure its isn't blocking up--and he mentioned a fitting in the IP that has a check ball that may be gummed up--he said he's poked them out before if they were blocking up and that cured the fuel problem..
I don't want to muck up anything on the IP,not knowing squat about them..

I may get an electric pump and install it,see if that changes anything..
I agree with Campfire's theory it may have masked the fact the mechanical lift pump is dead or dying ,and now just the IP is sucking fuel,and cant keep up with the demand..

I don't know if the mechanical lift pump is dying or dead either,it could be original,it was on it 16 years ago when I got the truck--I'd glady buy & replace both those items if I could be sure it would cure this issue..but as stated previously,I'll still feel vulnerable trusting the truck anywhere...
I'm also getting tired of its rough ride year round,and wearing it out as a daily driver when its getting close to "yard truck" status..
I do need a pickup though,that is why I've put up with it this long year round..

The rest of the truck is in need of repairs to keep it roadworthy and safe anyways,so I'm going to keep looking for something else to drive during the better weather,or get my van going and swap the plates on that,otherwise the truck wont ever get fixed "right",I'll just keep ghetto fabbing it together to keep it rolling..

You can't really do major repairs to your only daily driver ,you never want to tear it down and risk not having anything to get around in for weeks..and it sucks begging for rides to parts stores when you have no other way to get there..
 
 
Last edited:
^ That is what GM should have put on factory...

They don't list the base diameter specs,I assume the same Wix 33123 filter my spin on base uses will fit,they have 1" x 14 threads..
I'd get the one with 3/8" NPT ports though,not metric fittings..
Be nice if some other filters with slightly different base dimensions would also fit,that have the same micron rating ..

I found one filter intended for a gas station pump at Tractor Supply for $10 that is a 10 micron and had the right threads,but the diameter where the gasket is was just small enough that it wouldn't work on the stock filter base..
It lacked a drain valve,but I dont consider that a big deal..
I considered making a sheet metal "washer" adapter,but figured it may end up leaking or letting air get in..
I had to hunt for a fuel filter,Advanced Auto was the only place that had one in stock,it listed for $30,but the guy gave me a garage discount so it was $21..
I think the filter I removed yesterday wasn't plugged at all,no rust or dirt came out of it and it didn't feel any heavier than the new one once it was empty..

Price for that base with the primer pump isn't unreasonable,but $20 for this and $40 for that adds up fast,when your income is barely enough to keep the house you own..

I may try modifying a fuel tank cap ,add a tire valve stem to it and keep a bicycle pump in the truck,then I could bleed the fuel system if I had an issue on the road..as long as you dont pump up the pressure too much the tank will be OK,and I was told this is a good way to see if any air leaks are in the hose connections,etc,because the low pressure will make them weep,when they wouldn't otherwise..

Maybe I should get one of those foot powered bike pumps,screw it to the floor, hook it up to the gas cap,and just step on it every so often to keep the IP fed :haha:..be better than walking home..
 
I have that exact filter base , it does use the 1’’ x 14 threads I use a Caterpillar filter with the water drain , but the wix is fine I just get a good discount on cases of the cat filters through my work account.

I use them on every diesel I own , from my 6.7 Cummins all the way down to the little Kubota in my welder/generator.

I also replaced the the Golden Rod filter on my transfer tank , and the golden rod filter for my toyo oil stove at the cabin with those filters and bases :edit not that base for my transfer pump but that filter.
 
yellowK20 said:
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This is the filter it takes , I have one on my truck and I change it every 20,000 miles . It has never taken me more then 5-10 seconds of cranking to start my truck after a fuel filter change .

View attachment 298900
Click to expand...

That's pretty slick. I'd still rather have my electric pump. Zero seconds of extra cranking sounds just fine in my book...
 
I see Rock Auto has a closeout on Purolator F60266 Primary filters for $8.79 each,only 8 left in stock..if I had a credit card I'd order two for that price,its less than one locally costs..but depending on shipping,it may not end up being much cheaper..

I noticed my truck has no secondary filter--someone just ran hose from the mechanical lift pump right to the IP...had I realized that earlier ,I would have at least stuck a universal in line filter in that hose..but it's been that way since I've had it..

So all it has had most all of these years is the 10 micron primary filter--wonder if that lets enough crud get into the IP to do it no justice..
:doah:..
When the electric pump was on it & working,that had a fuel filter between the tank & the pump,that is like what old Fords used,has 1/8" NPT threads on one end and a 5/16" hose nipple on the other--I always feared that thing would clog up in no time,but it didn't..so at least it had that as a "pre-filter" before the primary one during the time the electric pump was on it..

When the Wix filter that was on it since I got the truck clogged up and I had to tow it home 2 years ago,($100 tow for 15 miles !),I cut the filter apart and it was nasty,it had "mud" looking silt in it and even the inside of the filter can had flakes of rust peeled off mixed in with the crud..

I know the filter was put on just before I got the truck--I put only about 5000 miles on it during all the years I owned it though--never expected it to get that bad in so few miles,for such a large filter..The crud must have come from the original tank..

I had replaced the fuel tank before that filter clogged,it was from a gas truck and perfectly clean inside,I am pretty sure it still is now,but can't be sure unless I try siphoning a sample out--I may try using the factory drain valve,see what comes out ..
Unless I got bad fuel somewhere,or someone has been putting something in the tank ,it should be good clean fuel..
(I need to invest in a locking gas cap ,I don't like not having one--vandals strike all over this state)..
I know a guy who found out a kid a few houses away was pissing in his gas tank at night,he put up a surveillance camera and caught him red handed..bunch of teens out drinking and raising hell,who had a grudge because he called the cops on them for trespassing..

Going to rain anytime now,so I wont be screwing with the truck today..missed the opening day at the outdoor flea market,ticks me off--was sunny and 60+ degrees this morning,would have been a perfect day there,and I need to do some walking,but I knew the truck would be likely to not get me there or back ,so I had to forget going..:mad1:
 
campfire said:
That's pretty slick. I'd still rather have my electric pump. Zero seconds of extra cranking sounds just fine in my book...
Click to expand...


I run electrics as well , they just give that little bit of extra help to push the air through
 
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