Motor Angle, Nose Dives, Doublers, Flat Bellys & Crossmembers...

[RGV72BLAZER]

So after a year of wasted time and money at a local shop, I drug my Blazer back home to finish it off. I'm waiting on some DOM and 3/16" plate so I can get started on my x-members. I have a basic idea of what I want. It may be overkill, but considering I'm planning on doing suspended x-members for the adaptors, I plan to add extra support at the tail end of the 205/LoMax (which is the built in side mount with two holes) and the tranny x-member. Plan on using poly bushings at the frame to mount the x-members.

I'm also trying to get the t-cases above the framerails so that the skidplate will sit as high up as possible. After toying with the combo the other day using the engine hoist, I pulled the tail end of the combo to sit above the framerails...checked the angle on the motor (specifically on top of the intake manifold) and it read ~0 to 1* (still not at nose dive). There was a slight gap in the bushings/tubing mount of the DIY4X motor mount, but nothing major.

So my questions are: What angle should a motor be at? Would the angle I'm thinking of using be too much? Could I put it at more of a nose dive angle? What type of problems might I run into? Aside from oiling problems (which are possible problems with rockcrawling anyway), fan problems (I'll be running an electric fan anyway), too much driveshaft angle, or too much stress on the motor mounts...?

Here's a pic of the combo a while back...not of where I had set the motor at 0*

Thanks in advance for everyone's time...

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617065&highlight=motor+angle
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=675573&highlight=motor+angle
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197672&highlight=motor+angle

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Most drivetrains are mounted downhill 4 degrees or so.

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

So any problems mounting it up higher other than the ones mentioned??

 

[cybrfire]

Throw your angle finder on the valve covers edge or another flat to the crank plane. Some intakes will accomodate for the drivetrains rake.

Only real reason I know of to have much rake to the drive train is to get the oil in the pan back to the sump.

 

[bp71k5]

You might check out Greg72's build thread, he was discussing the angle of the motor and issue that might come up. I can't say I completely understand the issue, but the rake is somewhat useful when using a carb or tbi, but TPI is ok with it since it'll practically run upside down.

 

[Greg72]

Not to pick at a fresh scab.... but, what did they DO with your truck for the last year? It looks about the same as it did in your build thread.

Oh yes, and check out Greg72's build thread. He's already gotten the whole "1st Gen Flat Bellypan" thing figured out for ya!.

You're on your own for the transmission/doubler cover though....he's not making any extras.

Direct Links:

(Post 183: Engine/Trans/Xfercase Angles)
(Post 222: Front Driveshaft Angularity)
(Post 225 - 249: Sheetmetal Tranny Cover)

 

[miniwally]

I set the drivetrain in my buggy almost level. I have a flat rotated doubler and a flat belly pan.

TBI 350 no issues for 5 years on Oct. 4 this year.

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

Thanks to everyone...I'll be running propane by the way...I'll look into the setting the angle finder on the right plane...I think any oiling problems could be cured with an oil accumalator but also have the Milodon 4x4 oil pan.



Greg, yep all that was touched in the past year were the front floors and rock sliders...THAT'S IT.

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

See any problems with my setup before I burn in the x-members? I pulled the t-case up as high as possible in order to fit a 1/4" plate for a skidplate.


Here's the frame with a 2* nosedive...but the rig actually sits lower in the front anyway by about 1"...& please excuse my Mexican pulley to hold everything up, only thing I had handy lol

Both motor mounts have this much space between them...

Small gap on the driver side of the bellhousing

On the tranny, it's at a 1-1.5" nosedive

on top of the intake...4* nosedive

on the block...1* ND

On the oil pan...2.5" ND

Any suggestions...does it look good? Or should I be worried and lower it? Thanks ahead of time, I'd like to get the x-members going this weekend

 

[4X4HIGH]

The ideal thing is to have a 4* tilted back on the carb surface of the intake manifold.

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

no matter if its propane injected?

 

[Greg72]

I'd be most worried about how you're going to deal with that 203 sticking straight up through the floor. It won't hit the dash (maybe) but it's certainly going to make shifter placement interesting.

The biggest concerns are going to be driveshaft lengths and angularity of the front driveline, especially through it's range of travel (droop). Setting the driveline up that high is about the same effect as having a LOT of lift when it comes the driveshafts and u-joint angles.

 

[RGV72BLAZER]

butchering the floor is not a concern. d-shaft will be a D60 stub setup, which will give about 42* of angularity. current lift is only about 5-6". shifters will be cable shifters.

still cause for a concern?? biggest concern is the d-shaft angle as already mentioned...

 

[cybrfire]

So your front driveline angle got better and the rear got worse.... Or perhaps the front didn't much change. Rotated up reducing angle but got higher at the same time.

Concerned about oil return to sump?

If you go down at all you can't get the skid plate in where you want it?

 

[Greg72]

butchering the floor is not a concern. d-shaft will be a D60 stub setup, which will give about 42* of angularity. current lift is only about 5-6". shifters will be cable shifters.

still cause for a concern?? biggest concern is the d-shaft angle as already mentioned...

I think that's about it for concerns (at least from me). The setup looks almost identical to mine, and the only things I worried about were crossmembers, firewall clearance and driveshafts.

Keep going!....only 730 more days until BB 2010.

 

[miniwally]

I would cut the motor mounts out and redo them so they are in alignment with everything but that is all. I think the current bind will try to eat bushings out of the motor mounts.

Don't be afraid to go backwards with your build at times to make things right.
I wish I had taken care of a few things on my buggy that we decided were fine. They really are fine but I know about them and wish at times I had changed them.

 

[kennyw]

Why not raise up the motor mounts to gain a better angle?

 

[cegusman]

Why not raise up the motor mounts to gain a better angle?

Thats what my plan is. raise it 3/4" to 1"

 

[miniwally]

Why not raise up the motor mounts to gain a better angle?

Higher CG

Motor angle doesn't matter within the limits we are dealing with. If there were oiling problems because the nose of the motor is 2" lower than stock than you wouldn't be able to go down hill in your car ever.

 

[kennyw]

Raising the TC brought up the CG as well... but not by much. Raising the motor to level everything out and eliminate the issues with drivelines, motor mounts and other issues won't change it very much either.