CK5
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MPG on a 6000 pound truck

You need to realize your true costs for this project. Just like when I came to terms with how its not worth it to swap out an nv4500 in place of my sm465 for me.

The true cost of your project is multiple years worth of diesel if you left your truck alone. And that doesnt even factor in what your time is worth to you.

Basically its like say it cost you $3000 to convert to a CNG 350. How much diesel can you buy with $3000, a whole hell of a lot. Just go mad max and throw like 4 55 gallon drums in the back of your suburban and hook them up to drain into your tank. Thats like a 300 gallon holding capacity. That way you buy alot more gas at the lower price.

when i had my ford 7.3 deisel superduty $3000 at todays prices would buy me enough fuel to last for 2 months and maybe another week or 2. glad i sold it now, couldnat afford to drive to work in it (besides the fact it was a ford) deisel is now around 5.50 a gal in parts of southern cali.
 
You drove 4400 miles per month? (assuming 18 mpg, $5.50/gallon, 2.2 months)

The $3K or so isn't the raw cost of fuel one way or the other. The question is how long to recoup the $3K through whatever savings there may be after the swap. Net savings of $3K on such a marginal swap (economically marginal) would take a really long time...

Rene
 
Diesel keeps creeping up! Yesterday, if I had bought a $2000 worth of diesel, I could've driven little over 12000 kilometers with it. Today, 11500 kilometers. Within week or two, diesel will cost 1/2 more than it did last december, 0.98 to 1.49€/litre.

Just read news about cng, it's assumed that it will be 5-10% pricier in july. I assume that difference to diesel will still be the same as it is today.

What it comes to a engine swap and cng system costs, I just say that what ever hobby you have, it will eat your money :haha:

I just like to try out different things, so I don't bother counting everything.
 
Wow...dude...I have tremendous respect for Finland and some of the stuff you did fighting the Commies off in the last century and really want to visit someday...buy holy crap do your licensing and fees make me want to run the other way!

I'm impressed that there are people like you who know about our history :laugh:

Please do visit here, this is a great country!

Just FYI, I live 7 or so miles from the very border they fighted for. All my childhood I walked by a house that had holes on the roof from the granate shrapnels. Unfortunately, that piece of history is long gone.
 
I just got back from a camping trip with my 6100 lb rig with a much hotter than stock 350 and got 11 mpg freeway. Not bad for a 6100 lb rig with 4.56's and 35's. I'm sure with a little more tuning i'll get a little better but not much.
 
I just got back from a camping trip with my 6100 lb rig with a much hotter than stock 350 and got 11 mpg freeway. Not bad for a 6100 lb rig with 4.56's and 35's. I'm sure with a little more tuning i'll get a little better but not much.

How fast were you traveling on a freeway?
 
I'm impressed that there are people like you who know about our history :laugh:

Please do visit here, this is a great country!

Just FYI, I live 7 or so miles from the very border they fighted for. All my childhood I walked by a house that had holes on the roof from the granate shrapnels. Unfortunately, that piece of history is long gone.

I'm a WWII history buff and also Polish, German, and Hungarian so I have a bit of an interest in that time frame of history and those that poked the bear in the eye once or twice.
Not to mention you guys slapped the Commies around pretty good until their huge numbers just got to be too much.
Then there's one of your country's lead fighters in the Winter War who ended up coming to America after WWII and joined our Army, fought in Korea and Vietnam and ended up dying in Vietnam as a US Army Green Beret. Our countries definitely share some history.
 
I'm a WWII history buff and also Polish, German, and Hungarian so I have a bit of an interest in that time frame of history and those that poked the bear in the eye once or twice.
Not to mention you guys slapped the Commies around pretty good until their huge numbers just got to be too much.
Then there's one of your country's lead fighters in the Winter War who ended up coming to America after WWII and joined our Army, fought in Korea and Vietnam and ended up dying in Vietnam as a US Army Green Beret. Our countries definitely share some history.

It was all about tactics :wink1:

I just can't remember the name of the fighter you're talking about. Simo Häyhä was one of the most successful snipers in history, but he died in Finland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä

Found it, Lauri Törni a.k.a Larry A. Thorne http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_Törni
 
Yep, Thorne, that was him. Seems like he was determined to keep killing Commies no matter what.

I was reading some sort of Finnish reloading manual a while back that was all about how your country folk used to use ingenious methods to scavenge and reload ammo for their 7.62x54R rifles and how that later benefited your country during the war.

Ever seen The Winter War? Been meaning to pick it up for a long time now.
 
Don't they inject (or have a kit) to inject CNG into a desiel? If this can be done you would use less diesel fuel for a given horsepower generated. I think this would also be cheaper than replacing the engine.
There is more BTU's of energy in a gallon of diesel fuel compared to gasoline. Therefore if you are getting 13mpg on diesel you may get 9 - 10 mpg on gas. Plus the changeover cost. If the diesel injectors are dirty or an air filter not changed for 15000 miles your mpg will be low.
 
Don't they inject (or have a kit) to inject CNG into a desiel? If this can be done you would use less diesel fuel for a given horsepower generated. I think this would also be cheaper than replacing the engine.
There is more BTU's of energy in a gallon of diesel fuel compared to gasoline. Therefore if you are getting 13mpg on diesel you may get 9 - 10 mpg on gas. Plus the changeover cost. If the diesel injectors are dirty or an air filter not changed for 15000 miles your mpg will be low.

There are several river ferries here that run on straight natural gas, but they're diesel engines. I've never looked into what it takes to make that sort of swap work though. It'd be interesting if it could be done in an automotive application.

Propane is used as a power adder for diesel's...similar to NOS on a gas engine. Works best with a turbo diesel from what I'm told.

Rene
 
Everyone is saying talking abolut how much fuel 3K would buy, but he said if he kept the diesel he would have to rebuild it. At high cost for machine shop and probably parts too, the rebuild might come pretty close to doing the swap.

If the swap means less taxes and fees in the future and a similar cost for either direction, go with the cng. I am glad I am deploying soon and will be parking the Sub for 15 months, but I fear the price of diesel when I return.
 
It was all about tactics :wink1:

I just can't remember the name of the fighter you're talking about. Simo Häyhä was one of the most successful snipers in history, but he died in Finland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä

Found it, Lauri Törni a.k.a Larry A. Thorne http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_Törni


My Dad was born north of Helsinki, Half of my family is Finn. I have yet to go visit though. I was born in Canada. My grandfather fought in Finland in WWII.
 
Well, I'll see what I come up with that small block, it may be pricier than I thought. But rebuilding the 6.2 is really expensive in here, especially machining. I would have to find a good block to start with, too.

Two reasons why I'm considering this... enviroment, and taxes. First the tax. Suburbans in here are registered in three different vehicle classes; passenger car, van, and a light duty truck. If it's a gasser, no problems (for now, at least). But with diesel, you'll have to pay diesel tax, separate from the tax you pay on fuel. For passenger car registered suburban, it would be around 950€/year :eek1: Vans have about 130-150€, and same with light duty registered. Tax is calculated from the vehicle class, and GVWR. Mine is registered as a van, and because of that it has 50mph speed limit, and not so comfy rear seat.

And 2010, we'll have to pay enviromental tax, based on Co2's on 2001 and newer vehicles, and older by the GVWR. And since my 'Burban is '82, I'll pay by the GVWR, about 385€/year.

I'm hoping that by the 2010, there would be a reliably way to measure emissions, and eviro tax would be based on that.

It really bugs me that even though recycling is the word the day, everywere they say that "save the world, buy a new car". Wouldn't it make more sense to keep older vehicles in good condition and drive them? It does pollute to make that new crappy car! I hell no won't buy one.

Yep, even though cost per kilometer is about the same with cng, emissions drop a little.

Does this mean that they will be checking CO2 output? If so, another option may be the veggie oil conversion for the diesel. What is it like to find 6.2L diesel parts in Finland? In this area, it would be just as easy to locate a used low mileage running motor (like from a CUCV) and work with that rather than rebuilding a tired motor.
 
Ever seen The Winter War? Been meaning to pick it up for a long time now.

Yep, I've seen it. Great movie! You should also get Unknown soldier (1955), good old black & white movie. Also refilmed in 1985, this time with colors. I don't know that is neither one available with english subtitles.
 
Don't they inject (or have a kit) to inject CNG into a desiel? If this can be done you would use less diesel fuel for a given horsepower generated. I think this would also be cheaper than replacing the engine.

What I've read about the subject, cng doesn't work with diesel without big mods, and after that it won't run with diesel. Lpg would work, but it's not legal to use on road, at least on passenger cars and pick-ups/vans.
 
I bet you could get better mpg readings by going slower, like 50-55mph.

Maybe so but around here even at 70mph you're getting passed because you're going to slow. If you go 50-55 you'll get a ticket for impeding traffic.
 
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