some parts stores dont show the old style anymore they just give you the gear reduction .
CK5
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Need a starter
- Thread starter thearborbarber
- Start date
I need to save this. I’ll be buying one of those starters at some point
The diesel gear reduction starter is easier to hoist into position than the Delco 27 MT ingot,that's for sure--you need a good arm to hold one of those in position while you start a bolt ..
I put the brace end on loose first once and it seemed to make it a bit less of a bench press to get it up and in place and easier to hold still..
I remember selling starters for big rigs a few times at one store--felt bad for the poor mechanics that have to install those ,I could barely get one off a shelf and lug it to the counter..they must use an engine hoist to install those..
I put the brace end on loose first once and it seemed to make it a bit less of a bench press to get it up and in place and easier to hold still..
I remember selling starters for big rigs a few times at one store--felt bad for the poor mechanics that have to install those ,I could barely get one off a shelf and lug it to the counter..they must use an engine hoist to install those..
I'm not a fan of the gear reduction starters unless you have a modern vehicle that doesn't see water and doesn't need to crank long, in other words, something with OBDII.
I have no problem driving a manual transmission vehicle across the parking lot on a starter that lacks permanent magnets.
I would not compare starters based on the "kilowatt" ratings they arbitrarily come up with. Most of them rate it based on nearly locked-rotor amps and and 12.6v. You need to know what torque at what RPM.
I have no problem driving a manual transmission vehicle across the parking lot on a starter that lacks permanent magnets.
I would not compare starters based on the "kilowatt" ratings they arbitrarily come up with. Most of them rate it based on nearly locked-rotor amps and and 12.6v. You need to know what torque at what RPM.
So when the field coils heat up and draw more current, and the permanent magnets don't, the wire wound starter will last longer? What does water have to do with it?
Sorry if this is offensive to you, but this post of yours shows that you have little to no experience with a PMGR starter. I have installed them on mixer trucks at work, then found that they start easier, faster, and even crank when the batteries get fairly low on voltage. I don't believe that the 4bt and 6bt Cummins engines ever had a direct drive starter. And I have seen guys crank on them quite a while to bleed injector lines, no problem.
I'm not sure how you can state that the kilowatt ratings put out by manufacturers are arbitrary. My personal experience seems to prove that the power ratings are correct. I have 2 carbureted trucks with PMGR starters, as well as 2 injected ones.
And I don't believe that the comment about water is valid. And a direct drive starter has more copper windings than one with magnets. There is more of a chance for the coating on the field coils to crack open and then get shorted by the water.
thearborbarber
1/2 ton status
I went with a 6449 starter from DB electrical. Easy install and it works. We'll see how it holds up.
I've ordered a few different starters, from DB when I can't get them from my supplier. Always had a good product from them. You will get great service from the 6449 starter.
For wheeling in mud. I have no problem thinking a series wound starter will work after an hour sitting submersed in the stinkiest mud. I have done it dozens of times, but a modern permanent magnet starter not so much (unless it is under the intake manifold like a Northstar).
I have found that the large body direct drive starters will drain a battery before they quit spinning.
The small permanent magnet motors quickly get warm because they have much less mass and surface area but must deliver the same amount of power. So if it's hot out and you ran your car out of gas and it won't spin the fuel pump up without seeing the reluctor spinning on the flexplate...
All other applications, a modern permanent magnet motor is the way to go. By far.
How do you measure these "power ratings" in the 1800 watt range you speak of? That they magically draw 150amps at 13 volts at some point when you turn them on? Or that they actually deliver 1800 watts (roughly 2.5hp) on the output shaft? Do they consume 1800 watts with the rotor locked or do they do it with the bendix spinning at 500 rpm? Or are they delivering 1800 watts of power at 0 rpm and delivering nearly zero torque at 500 rpm but still burning up 1800 watts? What you care about is what torque they are delivering at what RPM for the current draw at a voltage.
What magnets are they using in their starters? Cheap magnets start tapering off quickly at 300°, especially cheap neodymium magnets.
Delco publishes torque at RPM and current draw.
I'm just going off of the ratings that Delco uses. They developed the magnets, and built the starters. I think you're missing out, on some great starters.
And I had no problem find a conversion equation for KW to HP..
Just thought I'd mention the extra solenoid mod here. I swapped cheap lifetime warranty starters every 6 months for a while until I installed a remote-mount solenoid. The biggest problem with the system is that long pink wire and switch on the column. Once everything gets hot the starter solenoid doesn't get enough current to engage properly. Once I added the remote solenoid, my "dead" starter has worked great for more than 10 years (with headers). All the remote solenoid does is supply current to the starter solenoid. The main starter wire is still straight to the battery.
I agree. Heat soak problems, with the old school direct drive was a problem, especially with headers. A #$^*&^^Ford solenoid on the fender usually cured this problem. It also cures starting problems on backhoes and garden tractors.LOL I have found, that the PMGR Delco starters, aren't bothered by this on our Chevy's even with headers. But it can't hurt, and will make your ignition switch last longer!
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
I am very glad to hear this. I ordered the powermaster starter for my truck. Just haven't had a chance to get it installed yet. That will probably go in with the 454 at this point.
Back when I had old air cooled VW's this was a common problem..
VW designed the starter solenoid to be activated from the ignition switch ,several feet or wiring away,and when you had only 6V to begin with,you were lucky to the 3V to the solenoid by the time the current went all the way from the battery (mounted inches away from the starter,ironically!),then all the way to the ignition and back to the solenoid..
They used to sell a kit with a 6V Ford style starter relay you could wire up to power the solenoid directly from the relay and battery,I just bought a relay at a parts store and wired it myself after seeing someone eleses VW Bug that had the kit...it cranked over much faster and eliminated the dreaded "clunk" when you'd turn the key sometimes and it refused to activate the starter,and you'd have to crawl under the car and jump the solenoid with a screwdriver..
Or you could get out and PUSH!..and pop the clutch..
I never had a decent 6V battery--it seemed every one I'd get,even new ones,were junk from day one,they'ed sit on a store shelf too long before being sold..I was always jumping my VW off a 12V battery,which is very dangerous,I had one 6V battery pop when I connected the cables to the 12V battery I kept behind the seat..
One day my friends dad showed me how you can drill into a 12V battery case in the right spot,and tap into the lead cell connector inside,at the third cell,and you now had two 6V batteries in one case..
I used an old 12V battery I had been using to jump start the car,did that modification and hooked it up--it actually worked well for several months and the 6V generator kept it charged..after one cell finally died,I was able to use the other 3 cells on the other half of the battery ,and got another year out of it..
After I got a job at a parts store,I learned they had a "dual voltage" battery available for old 6V cars,that had six cells,and a Ford relay mounted on its case,so you could retain all your 6V accessories like lights,radio,etc,and get 12V for the starter only,and any modern accessories ..it was expensive,but pretty cool idea,cheaper than upgrading everything to 12V,and your 6V generator was able to charge it too..
RubberFloorMat
1/2 ton status
thearborbarber
1/2 ton status
That's the one. Same price on their amazon store too.
Could you tell me what is the difference between your starter 6449 PMGR @ $145 vs others @ $50.00?
Honest truth. Very little. The online price, is what all small businesses fight on a daily basis. Since DB has a nationwide customer base, they can negotiate a price direct from the manufacturer. They probably buy them 5000 units at a time, or more. Then, since the ordering, etc. takes very little human interaction, they can sell them, at a very low price. My starters cost more, because I try to support a business, that supplies all of my rebuilding parts. My cost on the starter, is more than you can buy one from DB. But I pay more, because I want to support that business. I charge more, because I need to stay in business. I rebuild a huge amount of farm and industrial units, that aren't available online, so those customers Want me to stay in business. I sell quite a few of the 6449 starters, a year at $145, because my local area will support that price. I used to rebuild those units, until the chinese units took over the market. Now the internet is taking over the chinese market. I've been in business since 1994, and it gets harder every day. The internet is a great way to get a huge variety of parts, but always try to support a local business if possible. The walk in price for a NAPA 6449 new starter is over $200 in my area, so I can sell them all day long at $145. Honest truth, there is very little difference in the starter. There is only a difference in the service. Diagnosis if something goes wrong, and a friendly face to help you get on your way!
