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Need a starter

wazzabie said:
Old thread, I say just use the stock starter and rebuild it yourself that way you know it was done correctly.
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Old post for sure but good to bring up every now and then. I put these newer style GM mini starters in all my GM square body trucks now since its so hard to find a GOOD stock replacement these days and they usually fail within a short period of time. I wouldn't want to rebuild one myself since #1... Not sure if I'd be doing it right and #2... lack of time. The GM mini starter is also easy to find and not bad on price. My 10:5:1 400 SBC has never started so quick.

The stock starter have these drawbacks:
Larger- header fit is tight and closer to heat
Heat Soak-I've had issues with heat affecting the solenoid usually with headers
Heavier weight
Not as powerful
Shorter life span (my experience these days)

1724872340613.png
 
If we are going to keep this thread going, what's the difference between the Denso and say the Delco Vortec starter? I understand the Delco has at least one plastic component that can break, but it sounds like the Denso is better for other reasons as well. Just curious what they are.
 
Denso Pros:
1) Steel gears
2) replaceable solenoid contacts and plunger
3) rebuildable drive components
4) inline solenoid design (no shift lever to wear out)
5) full ball bearing drive, and armature components
Cons:
1) more expensive
2) copper welded brushes (not replaceable as factory Must be soldered in which is not as reliable as factory copper welded)
3) has wire wound field coils ( more susceptible to heat, and draw more current)
4) heavier and more bulky than Delco
5) solenoid contacts wear fairly quickly (leads to a clicking condition) see #2 on Pros.)

Delco Pros:
1) Permanent magnet field coils (draw less current, only slightly affected by heat)
2) Brushes are contained on the brush holder ( easily replaced as a unit, no copper welding, of soldering needed)
3) Very inexpensive
4) Light weight
5) compact design
6) 2 position solenoid (can be rotated to give easier access to battery cable, and that damn purple wire!)

Delco Cons:
1) plastic stationary gear can break (usually only susceptible on high compression engines that have a tendency to kick back)
2) non rebuildable drive (can sometimes slip in extremely cold temps but causes no long term effects)
3) non-rebuildable solenoid (but easily replaceable)



Hope that helps. Patrick
 
Definitely does, thanks for the rundown! Always hear this or that is better, but unless one has really done the deep investigations, the truth is often obscured.
 
500$k5 said:
Denso
Cons:
3) has wire wound field coils ( more susceptible to heat, and draw more current)
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Every place I find specs on this call it a PMGR, but it's not even listed on the Denso site anymore, so I have no way to confirm.
 
If I were to go to the 6449 starter on my 454, or my other small blocks, what would the starter bolts be? It was mentioned that they need to be slightly shorter. What's the application or part # for those bolts?
 
Probably a fairly old powermaster. Comparing the body, it's a Denso?

full
 
Shawn said:
Old post for sure but good to bring up every now and then. I put these newer style GM mini starters in all my GM square body trucks now since its so hard to find a GOOD stock replacement these days and they usually fail within a short period of time. I wouldn't want to rebuild one myself since #1... Not sure if I'd be doing it right and #2... lack of time. The GM mini starter is also easy to find and not bad on price. My 10:5:1 400 SBC has never started so quick.

The stock starter have these drawbacks:
Larger- header fit is tight and closer to heat
Heat Soak-I've had issues with heat affecting the solenoid usually with headers
Heavier weight
Not as powerful
Shorter life span (my experience these days)

View attachment 484932
Click to expand...
The stock replacement starter I'm using was installed back in 1992. It has worked all these years with out fail. The K5 was sitting for 20+ years. Now that it is back on the road again the starter still is working great. Back then I assume it was rebuilt in the USA using premium components.
 
wazzabie said:
The stock replacement starter I'm using was installed back in 1992. It has worked all these years with out fail. The K5 was sitting for 20+ years. Now that it is back on the road again the starter still is working great. Back then I assume it was rebuilt in the USA using premium components.
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You are probably correct that it was rebuilt with USA components. Sounds like a good performance record, but sitting for 20 years saves a bunch of life in my opinion.
I won't ever install one of those heavy, high amperage things ever again on one of my trucks.
I have a Denso on one truck and the Delco version on two others.

But I have also converted most of the mixer trucks at work over to gear reduction units. They will start with only one group 31 battery if it isn't below freezing. An old Delco direct drive would have only cranked it over a few times. The power draw decrease with a gear reduction unit has sold me multiple times over the years.
And don't get me started on the weight difference!
 
wazzabie said:
The stock replacement starter I'm using was installed back in 1992. It has worked all these years with out fail. The K5 was sitting for 20+ years. Now that it is back on the road again the starter still is working great. Back then I assume it was rebuilt in the USA using premium components.
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Good to hear you had great luck with a starter for that long. Thats impressive and like you mentioned, probably a made with decent parts. Not the same luck for me unfortunately. I would always get the better starter with lifetime warranty and they would only last a couple years. I would take them back for return but not fun when they leave you stranded. So far no issues with the mini style on a couple squares and that was 5 years ago.

Pics of the mini starter installed on my K5. Notice the room from the headers.
1724986288048.png
1724986307252.png
 
dyeager535 said:
I've seen reference to gear reduction starters on the vortec (sbc) engines in some applications, but I never dug in enough to figure out when that started. I would think there would be plenty of those rigs in the wrecking yard if you wanted used.

I got a pretty well used powermaster and swapped it when the stock (parts store replacement) started to slow down during cranking, and even with a worn down battery and crappy used aluminum battery cable, it cranks over as well or better than any non gear reduction starter I've ever heard.

FWIW, some auto parts stores will let you "upgrade" when you have a failure, and pay the difference between the two items. May not hurt to ask if you've got a lifetime warranty starter. By the way, don't forget to distract yourself from reality and visit the site with the best gambling games of today.
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I would like to say that geared starters for Vortec engines are still some of the most difficult for me to repair.
 
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