Need help with my experience gaining

[Typrus]

Okay. I am not the guy who's folks give a Jimmy or Blazer or Bronco or 4Runner. My folks gave a 84 Toyota Tercel 4wd Stationwagon. Please don't laugh.
A family friend took me 4-Wheeling in his insane Suzuki Samurai (HOW DOES IT STAY UPRIGHT??) and we got in some crazy spots (perched on a 3 foot boulder with a 20 foot cliff on the other side comes to mind?), but it turned out to be one incredible experience. Since then, I've wanted to be able to do this stuff for myself. Well, as I said above, I don't exactly have a beast to start out with. In fact, I don't have much of anything. Sure, the thing pushes through snow like a champ and handles mud with no stress, but I'm a little hazy on the real offroading experience. I still want to try something minor to get something under my belt. Anyone know of anyone know of any toddler-trails in northern Colorado, specifically the Fort Collins region? I have been up through the many gates of the Red Stone Canyon in the snow and mud if anyone is familiar with the area, so I'm familiar with rut-filled steep roads covered in mud and snow.

Everyone has to start somewhere right? I'm hoping to be able to get my "Beast" lifted 2 inches (it has independant front suspension so its hard to get higher) and stuff some 26's under there, or some 22's with "big" travel.

Aside from the trail stuff.... I have some other questions.

What are some vital places to protect? Oil pan and gas tank come to mind first.. Anyone have any input? What are the best skidplate/pan materials and in what thicknesses? I've been told heavy duty plastics are fine, but I doubt heavy duty plastic is going to stand for 1000lbs bearing down on a sharp object.

Anyone know of any good methods to get more travel out of the suspension? This thing has a 5-link rear solid live axle. Panhard rod being one link. I know its important to keep all 4 wheels on the ground as much as possible to start with at least... I don't think this thing is Limited Slip either, so that just makes it all the more important.

This model has 3.53 diff gears, but I'm able to pull 4.10's out of the one I smashed.


I'm betting I'll see a few of these- Oh well. I could be some guy coming on here with a WRX STi asking how to make it into a rock climber though lol.

 

[blazinzuk]

Dude in all seriousness sell the tercel and buy a four wheel drive with a low range. If you can't do that then don't waste money on the tercel beat the tar out of it and then buy a four wheel drive. No worrys though my first off road expeirence was in a 2wd truck

 

[DavidB]

You rawk...that's hardcore, man startin' with a car. I almost tried to build a mazda GLC once just for fun (even though I have a Jeep and 4x4 Dodge). I think I would try some quad or small tractor tires. Might be too heavy for the quad tires, but some front tires off a little 4x4 Kubota might work. Then you won't trash your street tires wheelin, and your offroad tire will be REAL offroad tires.
I'd have to look at that thing to figure out how to lift it. Maybe a coil spacer or strut spacer. Check your shocks, brake lines, etc to see what's limiting your flex. Does it have swaybars you could disconnect?
Maybe trim or remove the bottoms of the front/rear bumpers to better your approach/departure andgle.
Carry a come-a-long and a ground anchor if you don't have trees around. Might need to get some tow points on there somehow too.
You could try welding the rear diff, but it would prolly break. You know the parking brake trick? Set it halfway or so and it should kinda act like a posi. Or try two-footing. Toast yer brakes tho.
Skidplates - 3/16" - 1/4" Aluminum or 1/8" steel would prolly work. Some industrial plastics really are tuff tho.
"The one I smashed" - You have another? maybe build it for a wheeler? If you could put it on a diet, that would help a lot. Seats, glass, carpet, rear doors, hatch. I'd keep the front doors in case you slide sideways into something. Don't wanna go get impaled on a tree or anything. Remove everything that's unnecessary.

Like blazinzuk said, monetarily, you're prolly better off getting that thing in good shape and selling it or keeping it for a DD. If you're going to wheel it and DD it, you're taking a risk.

 

[unclematty]

I'd just save your money and buy yourself a wheeler.
I am rebuilding my blazer(again), and I drive a chev corsica as a DD. that little thing is very limited in what you can do to it, and just for the record, I did when I read your post the first time.

 

[cbbr]

If you are serious about modding it, look at some ralley sites. Ralley drivers/racers do some pretty wild stuff.

 

[DavidB]

If you are serious about modding it, look at some ralley sites. Ralley drivers/racers do some pretty wild stuff.

I should have thought of that. I looked into that when I was thinking about doing the GLC.

 

[Typrus]

Hey, thanks for the responses. This isn't just a little mild street car, but its by no means a hardcore climber either. I have a few friends who have done some wacky stuff with these, including one who lifted his 2 inches and is rolling on 205/75R14's... Not teeny tires for these cars. Like I said, they can do pretty good in mud, snow and sand, and if for nothing else, it'd be cool to drive off to Moab and blast the dunes.
Yes, it has front and rear sways, but in the front (independant sus.) the sway also acts as a locator to keep the assy from moving front or back. In the rear its just a solid live axle, it'd be easy to take the links off the bar and disconnect from the axle.
One guy went to the length of installing a Toyota 4wd truck's drivetrain into one- full setup, transfer case, solid axle front, 22R engine..

I'd love to save up, but when you live 15 miles in, and are 16, even McDonalds gives you an akward eye lol.

The one I smashed up slightly bent the unibody up a bit. I'm still waiting to get the balls and money to get a repair appraised. I've had plans to drop a VW 1.9L Turbo-diesel in it for the torque (160 ft/lb torque added to 4.10 gears in a less-than 2500lb vehicle) and doing some crazy lift to it... I'll have to study the Humvee's independant suspension for insight or something.


BTW.... In your guy's opinion.... Is solid axle or IDS better? Each have their strong points, and I know that a strong IDS setup can kick ass, hell, look at the REAL Humvee (not the peice of crap H2's and H3's) but I know solid-axle use is more prevolant...

 

[DavidB]

Solid axle is the best bang for the buck. Have fun! Keep us updated...got any pix?

 

[Brocky]

My buddy had 235/75/15's on a subaru wagon. He is a special person.

 

[speedyvision917]

Dont understand why you would want to do this? no offense i just dont see it to be practicle or worth spending your money on something that isnt setup for any kind of offroading at all. (yes i know it has 4x4) Instead why not save up that money you were going to spend on it and get your self either an s-10 (if gas mileage is an issue), a blazer or pickup then go from there. just my .02

Tim

 

[DavidB]

'cause it's fun and DIFFERENT...and it's what he's got. same reason i almost built a GLC. it's a ton of fun to bang around in a little car rally-style. he's not trying to build a big bad 4x4 out of it. he seems to be a pretty smart guy, and he can learn on this thing with minimal investment if he's careful. i'd wheel one of those b4 an S-10

 

[Typrus]

I think part of it has to do with
Yeah, lemme get them uploaded.
Well, why? Because I'm attached to my car >.<
I'm curious.. I'm heard the Bronco biased side, how do the Bronco and Blazer weigh up? I've seen real monsters made out of both.

I'm still kind of giving Chevy an akward eye as the 2 Suburbans and 2 Lumina's we had were crap. I understand that if Checvy is anything like Ford, the cars are **** anyway, but the Suburbans made me sketchy. We had a 91 350 TBI 1500 Suburban that was not what we needed, had premature tranny failure, brakes that disintegrated in no time, etc. Then we got a Multi-Port Injection 454 2500 Suburban in 97 (model 98) that was alright, but the brakes were crap, the engine had no oomph (at least not with a 7500lb boat on the back going up a 10 mile 6% grade) and the tranny exploded at 65,000 miles. We bought an Excursion with the 7.3L Powerstroke diesel and have had two problems in the 75,000 miles we've had it- an alternator failed, and a high-pressure oil line seal blew out.
What I can say is I can't wait till the Duramax is in the Burban.... That will be a beast to make even the Massive Excursion step back (unless they haven't fixed the damn brake problem yet)


This car (not mine personally) was used in a few desert rallies sponsered by Toyota in both Mexico and Europe (I think the team was French) and it won 1st place in the Stock category in the European one. They are not little "Toy" cars, they have some grunt in them. Hell, Downey Offroad made the full offroad package for these in the late 80's... 2.5" lift, full-width brushguard, skidplates, winch mounting point, and I think they did mild engine Perf. mods. Not like you can get much out of a 1.5L 4-banger from the 80's (62 hp out of the factory, measured with Alternator only, and I have A/C and P/S )
That granny gear does move you though. I can idle up 5% grades in granny and I can climb some pretty steep hills. The most major disadvantage is in the doughnuts they have the nerve to call tires... 175/70R13 stock on 13x5 inch steel rims. Alloys were available but they were heavier and IMHO uglier than even the steels. What those tires are great for though is plowing through snow. I don't know if I mentioned, but I can pass by Jeeps with their massive tires that are stuck in a ditch while I chug along. Mud... Well, as long as the tires are good it'll do it with ease.

The thing I'm thinking I may do as part of the mod trip is to take the rear axle off of a RWD Corolla and grab the limited slip 4.10 and take the front diff out of my wrecked one.
The odd thing about my car is that even though it's all-time FWD, the engine is longitudinally mounted, not transverse. Makes working on it and even popping in different engines far easier, but makes it impossible to find a beefier front diff created that will fit, as the diff and bellhousing are one assembly. It seems only early Tercel's had the longitude mount position for both FWD and 4WD. I'll have to have custom fab done or something.

I'm not trying to make something thats going to be competing at the Rubicon or what-have-you... Just something I can go up and have some fun on some light to med-light trails. I'll probably then graduate to a Samurai or something like that then a Blazer or Bronco. Might go up to a Suburban. I may like the Excur for road use, but I wouldn't touch offroad with it...

Whats the difference between the generations of Suburbans or Blazers or whathaveyou? What was our 91 and 98?



I guess one thing is, I don't want to spend $30k on a rig just to go out and screw it on the first run out of total lack of experience. Sure, by the time I have a real rig I'll have spent more than I would have on a single rig, but I'd rather destroy a $5000 one or two times than a $30k once or twice. Does that make sense or am I a pathetic sissy

 

[puckhead]

try switzerland trail by boulder u can take a subie over it

 

[gambit420s]

cars rock for wheeling as long as you're not trying to crawl, i've got some audi 4000 quattros and they are awesome, but vac-lock diffs dont hurt either, you'll get some wierd looks though, i pulled a j**p out of the river once... it was hilarious
try looking for "Rally" tires michelin, pirelli and even kumho make em theyre like 10ply and knobby as hell, you can get kumho's through tire rack for like $75-80 ea.

plastics for skidplates are the way to go on a car, you'll end up using them more to slide on than for single point protection. you dont have a transfer case/low range so crawling is a bit more than you can do in a car but high speed gravel and rutted dirt roads are your best friend!! oil pan, trans and the like are the things to protect on almost everything

the rear shouldnt be too hard to lift but you might have to move things around

the front being ind could be hard, on my audi the susp is a single lower arm with a strut, i was thinking that attaching basically a second subframe to the bottom would allow me to get 2"~ish and more articulation by moving the control arm down and getting rear struts for the front, but these cars have the same front and rear suspension

i'm still trying to figure out how to fit 29-11.50R15 swamper SSR's on my car

with bigger tires you want the 4.10's you really really want them

one more thing i dont know about the contruction method toyota used but you might want to consider a cage i rolled an audi at 85+ 20' down an embankment hit a tree and broke my brothers shoulder, we lived and walked away but side impact and roll over protection are really needed. audi's have fairly beefy door bars and filled pillars that prob saved our lives.

and limit your passengers/cargo for several reasons, 1: weight, 2: balance, 3: you never know the heart of a man till you're upside-down and they start screaming like little girls... 4: anything in your car(esp a wagon) becomes a projectile in a crash (this includes people)

 

[Typrus]

Hahaha.. Want crazy? Just jacked the arse end of the wrecked on up to see how high until my dads old 32's would fit... More than a 13 inch jack could show.

 

[DavidB]

Build it already!