Discussion in 'The Tool Shed' started by pauly383, Jan 4, 2007.
I will find out myself .
what was it?
Why was winch rope ( synthetic ) much more expensive than ropes for other applications ( synthetic ) , even when simmilar materials were used .
I had found lots of cheaper preassembled ropes for less online when used in a marine application as opposed to a 4x4 application .
If the 4x4 thing makes it special , we all could box up someones cheaper rope and resell it for a profit each time
How much profit we talking about? I'm in! I want a glass tub!
I know ropes have different weaves, different amount of strans, and can be totaly different even if the same material. (My father has been in the tree service for 30 years). but synthetic i never really looked into. I think he has some new synthetic climbing lines, but not sure. He's huge into boats also so i'll have to ask him about this. And if He dosen't know, it will spark His intrest.
i got answers! you need a 3/4-1" braided low strech (bull rope). they used these on cranes (small ones) for around powerlines. boat ropes are more plastic like and are woven (for boat tying down boats). tight braides do not stretch like a woven rope (i have used both). example: 3/4" braided polyester 20,400 lbs breaking strenght $299.95 for 200ft. 5/8" -16,300lbs. 9/16"-13,300lbs
What I meant was why can you buy a 600 foot spool for the same price as three 100 foot premade Ramsey lines , in 3/8 inch .
Thats like six winch lines for the price of three . And I know it doesn't cost 1500 dollars to add an eye , a thimble , and even a bulk lot bought hook to three lines , even if it was done by hand .
My .02 cents:
Way back when I was a mech. drafter I used to have to pay twice as much for a roll of drafting tape that had half the adhesive on it than regular masking tape (so you wouldn't tear your drafting sheet when you pulled it up).
CONCLUSION: Specialty products cost more because there is a smaller market for it vs. mass-produced products.
i do know that splicing the eye into standed rope costs $. and ounce you get into braided it really goes up. but that is a big difference.
Thats what I was thinking . Way too much markup , and thats from a guy who runs a store with wholesale , jobber and retail prices for every item ( I sell to anyone ) .
Its just the niche market thing , I suppose as mentioned before . They KNOW we will pay for it .
Which again is allright , its our choice to buy , and their perogative to price . But I don't want to have to use used ropes , because these need replacing every couple years .
If someone made a 3/8 a little cheaper shipped , I would be all over it .
IMHO, there's no such thing as 'way too much mark up'.
Like you stated, freewill to buy. Next to the cost of producing the product, demand and competition dictates price.
you ever look into what it takes to splice synthetic properly for winch use? Like to make a loop or retain an eyelet? Someone had an article on Pirate once. It was a PAIN in the ASS. I wouldn't have the patience to do it right, and that is something that if not done right, don't do it at all.
I know with amsteel rope like I have on my winch it is simple to make an eyelet. Most of the synthetic winch lines are single braid 12 strand.
The link posted shows how to splice 2 bitter ends together (the bitter end is the loose end, if you are holding on to that end and the other end is gone then you will be bitter). To make an eye you take a lenght of the bitter end aboot 18" long and form a loop. Use the thimble of your choice (I used a safety thimble) and thread the line around or through the thimble depending on the type.
Next, scrunch the line as shown in the link to cause the braid to open up and thread the bitter end inside the braid. Once the full bitter end is inside the braid pull on the new bitter end to tighten the braid back down. It helps to secure the new bitter end to aid in retightening the braid. It acts like chinese handcuffs on the line. The harder the line pulls the tighter in grips the line in the middle. For added saftey you can then stitch the eye to help hold the line. In all it took me about 1/2 hour to put the eye in my line.
And here are some pics.
I dont have any of the splicing as I was working and not taking pics. Single braid is really easy to work with. Double braid has in essence 1 line inside the other and each is 12 strands. To form an eye or to splice that is very time consuming as each of the 24 strands has to be un-braided and then re-braided into the weave of each other. It can takes days to form an eye in a double braid line. The ones we use are between 4" and 6".
I have not found a good vendor for bulk synthetic line. Amsteel's sight wants $1000 for 600ft of 3/8. Not sure how much lines go for but if it is $250-$300 you could make a nice piece of change.
The amsteel type of line I looked at was 1497 for 600ft spool , ratings are waaaaaay high working limit and breaking limit . Overkill for winching . Ramsey prices are going 450-500 for 100 feet with a thimble and a hook .
So six times 500 , minus the shipping , thimbles , hooks , and skilled labor for a guy to do six ( probably in one day a skilled man does many ) . And you do have a pretty awesome profit . Espcially if you say they are available for under a grand in 600 ft spools .
Ya my line has a working load rating of 19,500 Lbs. Break is something like 23K. I got the line for free as someone bought the wrong size and it was going to be thrown away. I have a total of $40 in my line and it is for the safety thimble. The thing about 12 strand single braid is you do not need to have skilled labor. You can make them in your recliner at night while you watch American Idol. You could seriously burn through a spool in 1 evening 2 at the most.
Either way at the prices they are charging for ready made lines you def could make a living
I paid 40 for mine too . I got Marvs hand me down . Got a season or two left if I keep it nick free . I got the yellow sleeves to protect it as it goes over rocks too .
Here is who makes Amsteel
Their site has a dealer locator also.
And here is where I found a 600Ft spool
Maybe with the first link you could find it cheaper in AZ.
Separate names with a comma.