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No brakes

sope

sope

1/2 ton status
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
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Location
British Columbia
See if anybody's got any theories or if mine is right. My pedal goes to the floor. This only happens when wheeling, when my wheels are cranked hard and my usually when my truck is pointed down hill. Once I'm out of the obsticle brakes are fine. I'm always jamed against something when this happens so it hasn't become a safety issue yet.

I'm thinking that mabe by tolerences are too tight between my ground calipers and my rims and the calipers are being pushed towards the cantre of the truck when the reims flex a little. The only thing that kind of wrechs this theory is that they won't pump up.

Anybody got any other theories, experiences or opinions?

My brake specs are front one ton calipers (ground), rear 13" brakes from an 3/4 ton ff 14 bolt,the rest is all factory 1/2 ton. Brakes work great other than this and after this happens the pedal is solid (no air).
 
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I'm thinking fluid level (how downhill? like crazy angles?) and/or master being leaky or having seal issues internally.

:dunno:

-- A
 
I figure it would suck air and have a spongy pedal afterwards if the fluid level was the problem. The master is full. Usually at a pretty good angle, off camber or down hill the wheels are always hard over either way when this happens. I guess it could be a seal problem. I would be convident about my caliper being pushed by the rim but I figure it would pump up if this were the case and it doesn't. I should add this never happens if the if the wheels are cranked in a normal situation. Just when I'm all twisted, on an angle and wheels cranked over.
 
sope said:
I figure it would suck air and have a spongy pedal afterwards if the fluid level was the problem. The master is full. Usually at a pretty good angle, off camber or down hill the wheels are always hard over either way when this happens. I guess it could be a seal problem. I would be convident about my caliper being pushed by the rim but I figure it would pump up if this were the case and it doesn't. I should add this never happens if the if the wheels are cranked in a normal situation. Just when I'm all twisted, on an angle and wheels cranked over.
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Yeah, I'd almost guess that air was getting sucked in through a leaky line ... but then as you say, you'd have a soft pedal.

Thinking of lines, though, maybe the soft lines are getting kinked, either from age or or from hitting something, or are being stretched too much? Might be time for some uberlength braided lines, unless you did that already...

-- A
 
Yea done. If a line where kinked the pedal would stil be solid. I haven't come up with anything else so I appreciate the suggestions.
 
I'm thinking and your sugestion of fluid level could be possible because the air would only be at the top of the system and when the pedal was pumped the air could be just going back to the reservior. Now I think this could be likely.
Thanks
 
I'm wheelin this Sunday and will try to figure it out. It's just hard to see when your jamed against a rock in some weird position. I'm not too exited about climbing under my truck when it's like this and I doubt the hood would open due to flex.

Still looking for sugestions.
 
If you were getting air in the system they would get spongy. Is it possible that your lines are getting too tight when your all flexed out? If so, your lines could be pulling on the caliper, keeping the sliders from working properly and causing your brakes to momentarily not work. That would also explain not having any problem once your out of that position.
 
Mine does the same thing, and i have more than enough slack in the lines. No spongy pedal either. Again, only does it down hill, but I am running a d44 and 14ff, no grinding.

Is it a rear brake cylinder issue, mine only does it on the rear?
 
I don't know whats wrong with this but please fix this guys before you go wheeling again a freind had the exact same problem with his ramcharger. Well he finally lost his brakes in a situation where he couldn't stop smashed into a buddys pickup totalled the pickup not a good thing. Its fortunate he didn't injure anyone. Brakes are not something to figure out as you go. We never did figure out what was wrong with his either. I thought it would have to be fluid level
 
JEBSR said:
Is it possible that your lines are getting too tight when your all flexed out? If so, your lines could be pulling on the caliper, keeping the sliders from working properly and causing your brakes to momentarily not work. That would also explain not having any problem once your out of that position.
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Awsome. Good thinking Jeb. :bow:That sounds very likely since I have braded lines thay could pull the calliper . I will check that and give an update.
 
There is a trouble shooting section on the Wildwood website. One possible cause of what you decribe is called caliper piston kickback. When turned hard the caliper may be coming into contact with something and there by pushing the piston back into the bore. As soon as you turn out of it and apply the brakes the peddle is soft but firms up to normal in one or two pumps cuz it's resetting the piston to where it should be. Let us know.
 
Mudstud said:
There is a trouble shooting section on the Wildwood website. One possible cause of what you decribe is called caliper piston kickback. When turned hard the caliper may be coming into contact with something and there by pushing the piston back into the bore. As soon as you turn out of it and apply the brakes the peddle is soft but firms up to normal in one or two pumps cuz it's resetting the piston to where it should be. Let us know.
Click to expand...

I love you. you may have just solved my problem. I have dual shocks and when I turn all the way to lock the back of the caliper hits the mounting bolt. :doah: I didn't think anything of it because its right at the end of my turning ability but I have hydro assist and can see how the ram would over power the piston in the brakes. guess the dual shocks are coming off now. they didn't hit when I had a 44 under the truck.

I really hope that solves my problem. my brakes would be fine but every once in a while the pedal would be spongy and require a second push to pump up. then they would work fine until I got into technical stuff. it makes so much sense now.
 
Yea, thats def sounds like your problem then. Glad I could help ya out and it's a pretty easy fix.
 
If the pedal is going to the floor, the fluid is going somewhere or there is air in the system. You are either moving fluid or compressing air. If it is not air, and there are no leaks or ballooning brake lines, then the caliper pistons must be extending. The caliper may be getting deflected enough that the pistons can't squeeze the disc, but you can be sure the fluid is doing something somewhere. If the piston was being forced back into the bore you would have a hard pedal.
 
You may experience a hard pedal if you were on the brakes at the exact time of kickback. The kickback is likely taking place under power so he's not feeling the hard pedal, so when the brakes are applied and no pedal is experienced the fluid that was just pushed into the MC is now being pushed back into the piston bore; that's why it takes a stroke or two to get the pedal back.
 
Ok, I'll buy that Mudstud. Seems like it must be an awful lot of kickback then. That much deflection must be hard on the caliper, caliper bracket, and rotor.
 
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