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No spark, no tach signal

vandelay industries

vandelay industries

1/2 ton status
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Latest Crisis:

i've finally gotten around to starting the "new" engine.

i'm not getting any spark---verified thru in-line spark tester and no rpm reading on the tach.

NOTES:
This HEI/ESC distributor came with and stayed with the "new" engine---so it's in the correct position etc. The only thing i did was to remove the ESC function by connecting the Black and green wires from the ESC pigtail.


i need a step-by-step, beginner level course of action. Thanks.

i have a multi-meter.
 
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First thing I'd do is check to see if your getting 12V to the thick red wire that plugs into the cap..if so,you can rule that out as the cause--make sure that wire and the others that plug into the cap actually go in correctly and make contact with the terminals in the cap--its easy for them to "miss"..


Then you can hook a test lamp to the "tach" terminal and to ground --unplug any tach wire first..crank the engine over and watch the test lamp,it should flash on and off--do not crank it more than 5 seconds or so,too long can harm the ignition module..

If it "blinks" ok,that shows the pick up coil and module are working..

If not,you can unplug the pick up coil leads from the module and use the multi-meter to check the resistance of it--I don't have the specs handy,but it shouldn't read "zero" ohms..

The ignition coil rarely fails "suddenly",usually they'll die slowly,or crap out after the engine gets hot..there should be a ground strap made of metal going from the coil to one of the cover retaining screws,or a wire..

The ignition module can and often does fail suddenly--sometimes one will work only intermittently ,"come and go" so to say..you can pull the module out and have it tested at some parts stores,but they sometimes test "good" and are in fact junk,and vice versa..sometimes its easier to just "test" it by replacing it with a new one..you can always have it for a spare if it turns out not to have been the problem..
 
i am getting power to to the distributor (red wire) as verified thru test light.

The funny thing with the tach side is, when i put the test light on it, it lights up. When i crank it, it gets a little dimmer, but doesn't blink.
 
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Condition Critical:

i'm really disheartened of this whole situation---i've basically done everything in this write-up and still no spark:

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

Since i do need a truck pretty urgently i was contemplating looking at some more recent used models at Carmax etc. OR putting a trailer hitch on my car and getting a 6'X8' utility trailer.

Then i priced everything out and decided i would continue to suffer; An older car CAN make big financial sense IF you're able to work on it. If not, it can bring a lot of stress.

i also considered a distributor-less system, but it's like $700.

i saw this engine run before i bought it(distributor came with engine) and the only thing i did to the distributor was bypass the stupid ESC system by connecting the black and green wires running out of the pigtail. So i strongly suspect is has something to do with that. i doubt the coil or module went bad immediately after i saw the engine run until yesterday.

Current "strategy" is to plug the ESC pigtail back into the computer because i think the module may have to be "grounded" or maybe a circuit must be completely for it to work? (My truck also happens to have the ESC computer)

If that doesn't work, then my outside thinking is that i can switch the v-8's pickup coil over to the v-6 distributor? [not the reluctor wheel (not sure if that is the right term), just the pickup coil]. This way i can use the 4-pin module from the v-8 distributor and just not use the 5 pin ESC module all together. Because i strongly suspect that is what the problem is.
 
I'm not that familiar with the 5 pronged modules used with the ESC --only engine I had with that setup out of an '86 G-10 van,a 305 that I put in my '79 Bonanza C-10,I just yanked that distributor out and plopped in a older vacuum advance style HEI with a 4 prong module I had lying around..

That is what I'd do,if you dont want to leave it hooked up factory..
I am not sure but by-passing the ESC ,you might not get any spark advance other than the centrifical weights provide--I think the module takes the place of the vacuum can for part throttle advance..

Perhaps since you do have the ESC computer (not too many trucks did),you might be right about having to leave everything connected as it was "factory"..they often do make emissions tampering difficult..

I have that ESC distributor still,doubt I'll ever use it,if you need it,let me know..
 
i've been running a non-esc 4 prong distributor in the truck for quite awhile---until last nov when the 305 quit. So we can run a non-esc in the truck. The problem is that the distributor that came with the 4.3 is ESC 5 prong. Since stock non-ESC distributors for the 4.3 are difficult to find (they may not even exist) i can't just plop one in.

So now, after experiementing with hooking everything back up to the ESC computer and still no spark. i think i want to try taking the pickup coil and module out of the v-8 distributor and putting it in the v-6 distributor. i thinking this will solve everything.

But first, i can't get the roll pin out of the distributor---any hints here?


P.S. aftermarket "conventional" 4.3 distributors do exist, but the cheapest one i could find is like $240, i so i think i want to try swappng over the pickup and module first.

P.P.S. For 85-86 trucks and vans had vacuum advance on the distributor---the stupid ESC just retarded timing if it sensed knocking.

P.P.P.S. i'm really not happy about this----i spent the whole weekend working on the truck and it still doesn't run.
 
For ~$100 you can buy a reman'd distributor complete. I think I'd probably do that vs. messing around with a bastardized ESC setup. Especially since the various distributor components themselves are more than that.
 
dyeager535 said:
For ~$100 you can buy a reman'd distributor complete. I think I'd probably do that vs. messing around with a bastardized ESC setup. Especially since the various distributor components themselves are more than that.
Click to expand...

Kain said:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/40002/10002/-1


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850001r
Click to expand...


i may be headed that way, but i need one for a 4.3 v-6, not an 8 AND as far as reman i need one WITHOUT the ESC setup. So i wonder if i can find a marine application possibly?
 
UPDATE:

Ok, we're running----i bought a new BWD module at pepboys, and plopped it in. So it was either the module or i'm suspecting i did not plug the old module in all the way with the pickup coil-----because i saw this engine run with this exact distributor just before i bought it. It sat for several months and the only thing i did was do the ESC bypass AND took the module out to put some heat sink underneath it it.

i just don't think it's likely that the module just "failed" just like that? When i get around to it, i'd like to try the old module again. i'm thinking didn't press the pickup coil plug firmly enough back into the module. i've NEVER had a module fail.


Anyways, let's address some recent concerns:

Kain said:
scroll down and check it out


http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/distributors?N=4294944559%2B4294949281&PageSize=100&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending
Click to expand...

i was about to buy this one, if the new module didn't work. i had hoped that i could spend $20 for the module vs. $235 for the new dist. i hear Proform is very good. Not to be confused with pro Comp which i hear is junk.

dyeager535 said:
Have not messed with non-EFI stuff in some time, but this is not an ESC version, right? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-30-1685/overview/year/1986/make/chevrolet/model/c10

All cars were "ESC" starting in 1981, so those will never be right for what you want. AFAIK 4.3L trucks that weren't CA/CCC will not have ESC.
Click to expand...

Ok, all gm passenger cars got CCC (computer comand control) in 81 (i think the corvette got it in 80 though) with these distributors the computer controls timing advance---so no vacuum or centrifugal advance on these distributors.

NOT to be confused with ESC (electronic spark control) all this does is retard timing when knocking/detonation is sensed.

A lot (most, unless Californian?) trucks DID NOT get CCC (hooray!), but DID get ESC. In this case, the distributor DOES have vacuum and centrifugal/mechanical advance.

Now if we look at the summit link of the reman distributor: If we click on the pic that shows the distributor view from the top, if we look closely at the module we see that it's got 5 pins. So, no in this case it IS an ESC distributor. The two wires, green and white(?) from the pickup coil are connected to the intermediate plug on the 3pin side of the module and then there's another pig tail(not shown) going to the ESC computer that plugs into the intermediate plug---the three pins running off of it.

But i think i got this whole ESC jazz figured out anyways.

i wish i could provide some links regarding ESC and CCC but i don't have time right now.

P.S. i think CCC modules have 7 pins, while ESC only has 5.
 
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I never took one of the 305 truck ESC's apart...I figured they would be more hassle than worth lol...but since you have a V6, it's not like the 350 where you can drop just about anything in there.
 
dyeager535 said:
I never took one of the 305 truck ESC's apart...I figured they would be more hassle than worth lol...but since you have a V6, it's not like the 350 where you can drop just about anything in there.
Click to expand...


i think you can assemble a v-6 distributor out of a v-8 dist by taking the star "ring"/part that is attached to the pickup coil (is this called a reluctor?) and the star "wheel" (part that is on the shaft) from an inline 6 and putting them in a v-8 distributor.

http://blog.wrenchmanrepair.com/2012/03/09/4-3-262-chevy-distributor-build-hei-conversion/
 
I couldn't get that link to work,it said "page not available"..

I am not sure a straight six reluctor has the same firing impulses as a V-6,but it might..
If that is the case,then you could likely just get a straight six HEI and drop it in the V-6--the straight sixes use the same distributor body as a V8 ,they just added an extention to the drive gear to drive the six's oil pump..it is simply pinned on the end of the distributor shaft,so you can just drive out the pin and put the gear for the V6 or V8 back on it..
 
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