No Start, No Crank, No Problem?

[7D4Jimmy]

Hey all,

Brand new here and hoping to pick the brain of you seasoned vets. Just picked up a '74 Jimmy on a steal...$300!! Talked seller down from his modest $1500 asking price when he couldn't get it to start for me. Mind you its got A LOT of rust, but between the salvageable parts and at $300 its more than worth its weight in scrap if I was so inclined. But I would never do that considering its a full-vert, pre-smog (California) classic! Plus its a got a fairly new Softtopper, new radiator, new brakes, new tires and shocks! Anyway...Trailered it home and got to poking around. Found the starter was toast and the two fusible links near the starter were also fried. Replaced those items, made sure the battery had a full charge and got nothing when I turned the key. Tried bypassing ignition switch with a trusty Harbor Freight bump starter and can only get a click from the solenoid and cannot get the motor to crank. Anywhere I check I get 12+ volts. 2 fusible links on the firewall near the junction box are still intact, all fuses are good. Also have no lights or any other signs of life...I'm at a loss now. I pulled the ignition switch last night and will be replacing today (just cause its old and they're cheap). Any other areas I should look??? Any advice is appreciated!

 

[rampage]

I’d check your battery. Just because it measures 12v doesn’t mean it can put out any current. You need to have it load tested. Or you could measure the voltage while trying to crank.
Then I’d check all the ground straps and make sure they’re in good condition and all there. Same with cables coming of the positive side of the battery. They may be corroded under the insulation. Hard to detect but you can try bypassing them one by one with a set of jumper cables. That should give you a start (no pun intended).

 

[6872xtc]

If it has lots of corrosion in the body, I would guess that the ground connections have corrosion too. I would look there. Battery to engine, engine to frame, battery to body and engine to body.
Also check that the cable ends are in good shape and making good connections.

 

[pblaze725]

Don’t forget the simple stuff.

Turn the crank and make sure the cylinders aren’t seized.

Make sure the engine is grounded.

Make sure your new starter works.

Double Check all the wires in the circuit that had popped fuses.

 

[7D4Jimmy]

I’d check your battery. Just because it measures 12v doesn’t mean it can put out any current. You need to have it load tested. Or you could measure the voltage while trying to crank.
Then I’d check all the ground straps and make sure they’re in good conduction and all there. Same with cables coming of the positive side of the battery. They may be corroded under the insulation. Hard to detect but you can try bypassing them one by one with a set of jumper cables. That should give you a start (no pun intended).

Thanks! I had the battery load tested and it checks out ok. The rain just let up so I'm headed out to do some more digging and check all the grounds.

 

[7D4Jimmy]

If it has lots of corrosion in the body, I would guess that the ground connections have corrosion too. I would look there. Battery to engine, engine to frame, battery to body and engine to body.
Also check that the cable ends are in good shape and making good connections.

Thanks for spelling it out for me, gonna double check all the grounds. Much appreciated.

 

[dyeager535]

Thanks! I had the battery load tested and it checks out ok. The rain just let up so I'm headed out to do some more digging and check all the grounds.

Parts store battery load test in my experience was incorrect. I can't imagine they don't have something that actually loads the battery, but in my case they obviously weren't putting a real load on it...wouldn't crank the engine, but it would hold 12V. Apparently they were only looking at the voltage, and not under load.

 

[Wes Harden]

Turn the crank over. Make sure that motor is not frozen. Is it a 400 cu in?
They can have cooling issues that result in blown head gasket if waster sits in the cylinder for a time, it's over

 

[7D4Jimmy]

Turn the crank over. Make sure that motor is not frozen. Is it a 400 cu in?
They can have cooling issues that result in blown head gasket if waster sits in the cylinder for a time, it's over

Well it wasn't froze, so thats good (350 by the way not a 400). Replaced the ignition switch but didn't change anything. Checked the grounds and all were pretty suspect. Started replacing them, but had a other priorities take precedence and didn't get to finish and try to fire. I'll keep everyone posted as I progress. Thanks again to everyone.

 

[dyeager535]

Bump starter basically serves to trigger the solenoid using the "S" terminal, no? (Which can also be done with a screwdriver btw)

If it won't crank that way, the bump starter works properly, the block is grounded to the battery through an appropriate sized cable, and the positive battery cable is good, the starter should crank the engine. If it wont, and the other conditions are met, starter or battery is bad, period.

Personally I'd put a voltmeter on the battery and hit the bumpstarter, watch voltage.

What you are doing is isolating the starter hardware/cables/battery. Fix that, worry about the rest later. Might be related, might not.

 

[6872xtc]

My guess is that once there is life in headlights and such, there will be some sign of life in the starter. Could still have poor output from the battery, but usually even a battery that is too weak to bump the engine at all, will turn on a light somewhere.
Hopefully it will run well once it cranks over!

If it had ran previously for the guy who had it, and then suddenly wouldn't crank, most of the time there is one problem of the bunch which said no more.

 

[rampage]

... most of the time there is one problem of the bunch which said no more.

Exactly, which is why I’ll say it again - corrosion on the internals of the positive cables. Use jumper cables from battery to starter to eliminate that wire (being careful not to short anything out). Unless all ground straps went at the same time, which could happen, then you’d have power to either the starter or headlights since they use different ground straps.
If you’re going to diagnose an electrical problem you need the proper tools, just like any other work on your truck. In this case it’d be a multimeter.
Check voltage at battery while cranking.
If good then check voltage at starter - should be relatively close to battery voltage - if not then positive cable is bad.

 

[pblaze725]

Make sure the big positive connecton on the starter isn’t clocked around and shorting on the block.

 

[diesel4me]

I read he jumped the starter with a remote push button,which should have activated it regardless of faulty wiring or the neutral safety switch being a possible cause--if jumping the solenoid doesn't get it to crank then it has to be the battery cables,no engine ground, or the battery ..or maybe the starter is bad..sometimes the solenoid inside gets arced out ,there is a disc inside that makes contact with the positive cable and the "S" terminal to get it to crank,if it gets arced enough,or corroded,it may not conduct well enough to engage the starter..

 

[7D4Jimmy]

Would’ve been nice in hindsight to isolate it as the battery and/or one or more grounds ...but I just decided to make all new grounds and grind down to fresh meat on all the mounting points and threw on new hardware without test starts in between each. Swapped out the battery with one of my other trucks and now IT CRANKS! There’s some signs of life but it wouldn’t fire.

It’ll turn over (sounding normal at first) then it’ll sound like the starter is trying to punch through the floorboard, real hard clunking. Is that a shimming issue?

 

[Fordum]

Hard to say from the description, but it sounds a little like a timing problem. Or a crossfire issue, but timing is more likely. You might try marking the distributor location, and then retard it some.
Sounds like it might be trying to fire while the piston is still coming up.

 

[7D4Jimmy]

I think you’re on to something there Fordum. Took a look at the distributor and it’s missing the the hold down tab! Anyway, I turned it and tried starting it in a few different locations but the battery got too weak and now I ran out of time to mess with it anymore today. Threw the charger on it and will give a go tomorrow. Thanks

 

[dyeager535]

Just a reminder. New batteries are generally not that great anyway (all starting batteries anymore seem to be varying levels of garbage), and every time you draw it down, you are decreasing its capacity and life span a fair amount. Kind of hard to avoid when they wont start, but you are better off trying a couple starts and charging it back up.

The average starting battery doesnt have a lot of capacity in the first place, is not designed to be deep discharged, and the stock starters draw somewhere around 300 Amps. It doesnt take much cranking at all to suck a large amount of the charge out of one, new or not.

 

[Fordum]

OK, if the holddown clamp is missing, and if the bushings in the dizzy are a little tight, it could be way off, not just a little. Depending on how tight it is in the hole. Tight bushings combined with a loose dizzy could have the whole thing twisting around while you are cranking.
I would recommend getting it close before you try again.
You will need some kind of remote starter. A simple switch and a couple of pieces of wire can work. But you need a way to bump the motor around without putting power to the ignition.
Then, pull the no.1 spark plug, and bump the engine around until that cylinder is at top dead center.
As I am sure you know, there are two TDCs on each plug. So, you want the one where the compression stroke is. When you get it to that point, pull the cap and see where the rotor is pointing and twist the distributor until it pointed at no.1 plug wire.
That is not correct for normal running, but it puts you in the ballpark. It should at least try to run at that point. Also, I would mark that spot so that you can tell how much you move it, and if it moves by its self.

 

[7D4Jimmy]

Got it going!!! Pulled the distributor, re-installed correctly and it fired on the first attempt. Don’t have a timing light but got it sounding decent... did a little test drive around the neighborhood and seems to run pretty well. Just happy it’s alive. I’ll grab a timing light and get it dialed tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the help