What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

NV4500 failure?

I know what "the official" statements from GM and dodge are about the nv4500. I also know that Penzoil makes the oil for GM and mopar.

The technical requirements for the oil doesnt change, just the manufacturer. Penzoil used to market that oil to the public as "syntorq" IIRC. But you paid nearly 3x the price if you bought it from a GM dealer with a GM label on it.

You can choose to believe whatever you want. I'm just stating some facts tht I happen to know about that particular subject.
 
Care to share more info? I'd love to not have to buy that expensive oil if I had some definite proof it's going to operate correctly.
 
Castrol sorry not Penzoil. Castrol syntorq LT is supplied to GM and Dodge for repackaging as "NV4500 fluid"

There are equivalent oils from other manufactures. Amsoil MTG is one of them. I personally use Penzoil in them.

If you buy General Motors (Part #12346190) and Chrysler (Part #4637579) you are in fact buying Castrol Syntorq LT.
 
an oil rating, is an oil rating... we see this bs ALL the time in the marine biz on drive oils, etc... if it meets certain API ratings, it doesn't matter what name is on the bottle..


$$$$$$$$$$ :whistle: $$$$$$$$$$
 
Yea that's a good one too.

If you read the suitable replacement list at the bottom of that page you'll see what's listed.
 
Well I got all of the parts ordered and should hopefully be here tomorrow before the holiday.

I called South Bend Clutch and discussed my options on installing a 1.375" input shaft. They said that if i buy the input shaft kit from them and send my clutch disc in they will install the larger hub for free. We talked about my engine upgrades and future plans and he said that unless I'm at 500 HP and 1000 tq the 1.25" input shaft will hold up just fine. I'm really impressed with South Bend's customer service. They gave me honest advice rather that trying to make a buck and sell me something I don't really need.

I ordered all of my parts from quad 4x4. A stock input shaft, 4 new bearings, shim kit, 4th gear clutch and synchronizer all added up to $350. I didn't think that was too terribly bad.

I took the case to work to put it in the parts washer and that's when I really realized what caused the front bearing to fail.

When I assembled the transmission last time I used silicone to seal the front bearing retainer. When I tightened the retainer the silicone squeezed into the oil supply port and partially blocked it. I think the bearing was getting oil, just not very much. I don't know why it took almost 2 years for the bearing to fail though.
 
rompinstompinmudmonkey said:
I took the case to work to put it in the parts washer and that's when I really realized what caused the front bearing to fail.

When I assembled the transmission last time I used silicone to seal the front bearing retainer. When I tightened the retainer the silicone squeezed into the oil supply port and partially blocked it.
Click to expand...

seen so many people use the wrong stuff in the wrong places .

and this leads to burnt up stuff.

use a gasket were it needed / look for oil ports or feed channels / notice the little stuff before you just slap some go on and go . :doah:
 
ryoken said:
an oil rating, is an oil rating... we see this bs ALL the time in the marine biz on drive oils, etc... if it meets certain API ratings, it doesn't matter what name is on the bottle..


$$$$$$$$$$ :whistle: $$$$$$$$$$
Click to expand...

My trouble is that the manufacturer doesn't provide an oil rating, only that the syntorq oil was specifically developed and required for the nv4500 and hence the only one with tested/approved amounts (supposedly lower than normal amounts) of extreme pressure additives to not break down the syncros. Lots of debate on different sites about which oil is ok or not, but all the rebuilders say their warranty is void if they find evidence of non approve oil in it. I have a hard time believing they have that disclaimer without a real reason behind it.
 
The reason is, any reason to void warrantee.


Oil ratings are standards. The manufacturer does supply a rating. Syntorq Is a low temperature full synthetic GL-4 75w90 oil.

If you actually mean the additive package of each oil. Then you are correct. The additive packages are proprietary to each company and are not require to be published. those have no bearing on the oil rating though.

Nv4500 are not the only transmission to use brass syncros. It's not voodoo or black magic. The suggested equivalents are fine substitutes for syntorq.
 
bingo.. EVERY oil has to have the guidelines it meets printed on it..

it's all about scaring people into making more money for said company, whether that's getting over on a warranty or selling more oil.... we see it all the time on various products, from oil, to filters, etc...
 
DEMON44 said:
Nv4500 are not the only transmission to use brass syncros. It's not voodoo or black magic. The suggested equivalents are fine substitutes for syntorq.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression they don't use brass syncros, but carbon fiber, which is where the problem is. Supposedly switching to brass syncros makes it more tolerant to other oils.
 
Man, sorry to hear about the shaft failure. The cause of it sucks too. I agree with Luke on the anaerobic sealer. Permatex 518 is the stuff that I use on machined flanges. Works great.

I have been nervous about fluid transfer from transmission to transfer case because of previous experience and similar experiences I have heard of. Other than checking the fluid regularly there is no real way to know, but I figured if something bad was happening the temperature of the fluid would increase. With that line of thinking, I decided to install a transmission temperature gauge. Now I'm not sure it will show a problem, but it has taught me a few things about lube temp in these transmissions. The first thing was how cool these things run under normal conditions. On a regular day, ripping down the road at pretty much any speed, it runs from 140-180*. Now if you throw a grade at it it will start climbing. If it is a hot day and we are pulling a 7* grade it will run up to 220* pretty easily. I have not got it over that, but my loaded weight is less than 8600lbs. One interesting point of that temperature is that it doesn't come back down. Once it hits a high temperature, it pretty much stays there until we shut it down for awhile (food stop, etc). Other than that it stays put. I could only imagine what the temperature does with the loads you run. Also, my motor is not turned up as far as yours, so that can get added into the equation too.

Now, would I run a cooler on it?? Not sure on that. I actually have looked into them before, but the fast coolers are sold in pairs and I can't run one on the passenger side due to the front driveshaft being right there. If I could have bought just one I probably would have put one on. One thing I do have is one of the filter kits that Quad4x4 sells. In a conversation with Dan, he highly recommended it to me and using only that as a reason, I installed it. I have to say I was very impressed with how dirty the filter was on the first service (and how clean the oil was). The oil was so clean that I actually saved it and put it back in the bottles and keep in the truck as "trail emergency" lube. It is an amazingly simple setup, but it works very well so I highly recommend it.

If you decide to get the cooler kit and only run one for driveshaft clearance issues or in lieu of a filter, let me know and I'll split the cooler kit with you.
 
I did go for the cooler kit, hoping it shows up tomorrow. When I ordered it I spoke to Verlyn Fast about drive shaft clearance issues. I asked if he had ever heard of issues running the coolers on a lifted 1st gen dodge ( what my drive train is out of) and he said that he used to make 2 different sized coolers. When he made them 4 1/2" deep he would occasionally run into issues. Now he makes them a 3 1/2" deep and says he doesn't have any issues.

I scored a PTO awhile ago and I'm thinking about installing that too. Not sure if I want to put it on the trans or the t case though. Its air actuated ( I also have an on board compressor I need to install in the toolbox). My thought is to put a hydraulic pump and reservoir on it with a pair of hydraulic couplers mounted in the bumper so I can have live hydraulics on the truck. That way if I ever need to raise or move an implement I can do it without having a tractor around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom