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NV4500 Rebuild Questions
- Thread starter campfire
- Start date
Then you would probably end up with a leak
Yeah...you probably shouldn't be drilling lots of holes. At least, not in my transmission.
I drilled a hole into my NP203 range box. It doesn't leak.
Unless I remove the pipe plug.
Martin
Unless I remove the pipe plug.
Martin
I'm with Martin, drill away. If you drill correctly you won't break through the case. Just knick the outside. It's not like the case is made of sheet metal... Locktite or thread sealer if you are worried about it.
FWIW: I plan on drilling my Nv4500 to use the older bell housing. I'm not scared.
FWIW: I plan on drilling my Nv4500 to use the older bell housing. I'm not scared.
When I did the NV4500 thing what made the decision for me was having the tranny to bell bolts end up coming into the tranny from the inside of the bell. This makes them inaccessible and just as importantly, not inspect-able. Worse yet is installation issues, having to get everything lined up with the bell attached to the tranny is a much bigger pain in the ass...
All to save what? $200 maybe?
F that, I also chose the AA bell and hydro slave adaptor for $400 from Advance Adaptors. It bolts up like normal, can be serviced normally, bell bolts are external, uses all GM parts for the hydro clutch.
If money is so tight that a lousy $200 makes the decision for you, this might not be the hobby for you. Especially when the pros and cons are factored in.
All to save what? $200 maybe?
F that, I also chose the AA bell and hydro slave adaptor for $400 from Advance Adaptors. It bolts up like normal, can be serviced normally, bell bolts are external, uses all GM parts for the hydro clutch.
If money is so tight that a lousy $200 makes the decision for you, this might not be the hobby for you. Especially when the pros and cons are factored in.
So...how is that any different from transmissions with an integral bell housing? Seems like most of the vehicles on the road don't even have the option of removing the tranny without the bell housing. And yet life goes on for them...
The $200, while significant, is not going to make this decision for me. I'm not even against scrapping what I just bought and buying the $400 bell housing, if it winds up actually being better. At this point, if the bolt tapping works out I'm not sure the AA bell housing actually would be better. I'll have to think about this...
Well, guiding the tranny input through the clutch is already a bear of a job. With the clutch, PP and bell mounted you can stud the bell to guide it into position with the AA bell.
The alternative with a bell through bolted from the inside is having to align the entire works through the clutch as one piece. Having done several clutches with cast iron manual trans, I know which way I want to do that job.
The alternative with a bell through bolted from the inside is having to align the entire works through the clutch as one piece. Having done several clutches with cast iron manual trans, I know which way I want to do that job.
Meh. NV5600's have an integral bell housing, and they make an NV4500 look like a little girl.
Martin
Martin
You should try rolling a tractor split together sometime.
Martin
Martin
My thought exactly. It's been a few years since I installed my last automotive tranny, but I don't remember it being all that difficult. Maybe I just got lucky.
I have done this on a fairly small tractor (4500 pounds). For that rig, I compressed the pressure-plate springs using 3 bolts. With the clutch released, alignment was fairly easy, and the bolts were later removed via an access hole. I would love to have that option for the truck tranny, but I don't see a way of making that happen. But I would think that if the bell housing/clutch was installed like Rene said, I could have someone stand on the clutch pedal and the clutch disc would release like the tractor clutch did. I do know the tractor was lots easier to join with the clutch moveable.
Thoughts?
P.S. Congrats to Martin on having an even 8500 posts...
If you use the proper pilot tool or an old main shaft to align the disc ,the tranny usually slides right into place once you get it jacked up to the proper height and angle..
I've helped "split" a Ford 4500 tractor and it was a S-O-B to get the two halves back together--we had to use a floor jack,two come-a-longs,kick it,lever the rear half with long 2x4's before we finally got the the mainshaft in the clutch...after it was together the clutch chattered pretty bad for awhile,I think the disc spline hub got tweaked..
Although the stock bellhousing would probably work,I'd not be enthused about drilling holes in the transmission or having the bolts inside the bell housing--if they ever backed off you'd have to pull everything apart to tighten them--if it was a one piece tranny/bell housing you wouldn't have that to worry about..
I'm surprised no one has come up with an adapter plate to get around this problem,but I suppose it would cost as much as the Advanced Adapters bell housing probably..
I've helped "split" a Ford 4500 tractor and it was a S-O-B to get the two halves back together--we had to use a floor jack,two come-a-longs,kick it,lever the rear half with long 2x4's before we finally got the the mainshaft in the clutch...after it was together the clutch chattered pretty bad for awhile,I think the disc spline hub got tweaked..
Although the stock bellhousing would probably work,I'd not be enthused about drilling holes in the transmission or having the bolts inside the bell housing--if they ever backed off you'd have to pull everything apart to tighten them--if it was a one piece tranny/bell housing you wouldn't have that to worry about..
I'm surprised no one has come up with an adapter plate to get around this problem,but I suppose it would cost as much as the Advanced Adapters bell housing probably..
On my truck, there is no "jacking it to level". The shift tower on the 465 HAS to go straight up through the floor (which is near impossible due to alignment of the input shaft splines/pilot bushing) which means the trans has to go in at a pretty steep angle. Otherwise it hits the body long before you can line the input shaft up.
This with the later tacked in trans tunnel. Removable tunnel is going to be one of my mods.
This with the later tacked in trans tunnel. Removable tunnel is going to be one of my mods.
SYE question?
Why do folks eliminate slip yokes? Do the slip yoke seals leak more easily than fixed yoke seals? Is it just so the oil doesn't come out when the shafts are removed? Something else?
I'm trying to imagine a normal use situation where I would want to ditch the slip yoke.
FWIW, my driver-side NP241 has a fixed rear yoke. Not sure, but I'd think it would swap to a passenger-side NP241, should I want it. I found a passenger-side 27-spline NP241 local to me (and there's nearly nothing local to me up here in da woods), and I'm thinking of using that (after swapping out the input shaft).
Still too cold to really be thinking about this swap, but I'm almost done collecting pieces.
Why do folks eliminate slip yokes? Do the slip yoke seals leak more easily than fixed yoke seals? Is it just so the oil doesn't come out when the shafts are removed? Something else?
I'm trying to imagine a normal use situation where I would want to ditch the slip yoke.
FWIW, my driver-side NP241 has a fixed rear yoke. Not sure, but I'd think it would swap to a passenger-side NP241, should I want it. I found a passenger-side 27-spline NP241 local to me (and there's nearly nothing local to me up here in da woods), and I'm thinking of using that (after swapping out the input shaft).
Still too cold to really be thinking about this swap, but I'm almost done collecting pieces.
If you damage the rear shaft off road, you can remove it and limp home on the front only. With a slip yoke, pulling the shaft creates a big leak if you drive it.
I've heard this, but I'm just not thinking it's likely to be a concern for my truck, given that I'm building a road-trip/expedition rig.
It isn't much of an issue for a truck that spends most of its time on the road. However, you could have the same problem with a bad u-joint unless you carried a spare and the tools to change it.
Blew the rear 10 bolt apart (and destroyed driveshaft) on the street about an 1/8 mile from my house. Even with nothing holding the axleshafts in the housing, I was able to drive it home. For the cost, worth it? No, but the case was already fixed yoke, just an idea why/when they might come in handy. On a full floating rearend, you could drive virtually forever without needing a rear driveshaft.
Maybe it's because most slip-yoke trans spec trans fluid (outside of things like the slip yoke 205's) and the thinner stuff leaks easier, but it also seems to me like the slip yokes are more likely to leak than non-slip yokes. Pretty common to always see a drop of fluid hanging off the extension housing on a slip yoke truck.
Apparently pretty much nothing needed swaps between the driver and passenger drop 241's. If it did, swapping to a fixed yoke would be a lot easier and cheaper.
Maybe it's because most slip-yoke trans spec trans fluid (outside of things like the slip yoke 205's) and the thinner stuff leaks easier, but it also seems to me like the slip yokes are more likely to leak than non-slip yokes. Pretty common to always see a drop of fluid hanging off the extension housing on a slip yoke truck.
Apparently pretty much nothing needed swaps between the driver and passenger drop 241's. If it did, swapping to a fixed yoke would be a lot easier and cheaper.
I have known guys to drive home on the front axle only after breaking stuff while wheeling in the mountains out here. By the time they got home 2 hours away, the front gears were worn out. Unfortunately, low pinion axles used in our trucks drive on the coast side of the gear while driving forward and cannot take long term use. It is OK for short distances, but not advised for long distance.
Plus a fixed yoke is much shorter, so you end up with a longer drive shaft, and less of an angle between your transfer case and axle.
Martin
Martin
I have noticed this pattern.
Bummer. Having a fixed-yoke driver-side case is the only reason that I considered fixed-yoke. It really doesn't seem worthwhile if I have to buy parts.
Am I correct in thinking that the input shaft is easily swappable?
