CK5
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Oil catch can
- Thread starter Kain
- Start date
beags86
Eastbound and Down
Thats how I plumbed mine. Some people run a closed system to run manifold vacuum to the catch can.
I tried running the pcv in interest in ov helping the new rings seat but also keeping the smell down.
If you fallow my thread on my k5, I've built a stroker out of my 010 block and I've battled over oiling situations until I was forced to try a catch can.
The only other changes I could make to my design is to add a vacuum hose to the tank to draw through the pcv's but again why run oil vapor back through the engine even if you are worried about the environment that small amount of vapor is affecting the engine more than the environment. Js
Of course the argument for crank venting could be made...
If you fallow my thread on my k5, I've built a stroker out of my 010 block and I've battled over oiling situations until I was forced to try a catch can.
The only other changes I could make to my design is to add a vacuum hose to the tank to draw through the pcv's but again why run oil vapor back through the engine even if you are worried about the environment that small amount of vapor is affecting the engine more than the environment. Js
Of course the argument for crank venting could be made...
Kain
3/4 ton status
from pcv to can to vacuum port
Kain
3/4 ton status
yep mine does and love how when its cold it will pull moisture out of the system
Keep in mind a lot of that condensation liquid it's pulling out is "created" by the catch can itself. The hot air expands and cools when it hits the can and the moisture condenses and falls into the can(just like your air compressor), otherwise it just would of perhaps "cleaned" the engine while still being vapor because it never cooled before it hit the combustion chamber and remained in the gaseous state. This is why you get more in the winter despite the fact that the moisture in the air is significantly less at colder temperatures (absolute humidity is way different than relative humidity).
Obviously the oil vapors that are picked up by the PCV are another story.
Catch cans shouldn't hurt anything, but most of the time they aren't needed as usually the fuel running by the intake valves washes them clean. One exception to this is with a GDI engine where there is no fuel there, in that case it may be more beneficial. Although one could wonder if in that dry of a situation if the oil going by the valve helps prolong the life of the valve guide even though it reduces efficiency because of the carbon deposits and slower velocity/flow into the combustion chamber.
I've used catch cans in two situations:
GDI L86 (PCV to can to vacuum port as stated)
Racey motor with crankcase vacuum pump (crankcase (valve cover or valley pan) to vacuum pump to catch can with breather)
Vacuum pumps move a lot of air to create that vacuum and you don't want to pump that oil vapor right onto the road/track in front of you.
I can also see where some engines that have a lot of wear or blowby might benefit from preventing too much oil from going back in and caking on the valves.
I also think a good baffle is very important in all types of PCV (intake vacuum source or vacuum pump) situations to keep most of the oil vapor in the engine so it never gets sucked out in the first place. A good baffle inside the engine separates the oil mist and not the water vapor because it never cools off.
Obviously the oil vapors that are picked up by the PCV are another story.
Catch cans shouldn't hurt anything, but most of the time they aren't needed as usually the fuel running by the intake valves washes them clean. One exception to this is with a GDI engine where there is no fuel there, in that case it may be more beneficial. Although one could wonder if in that dry of a situation if the oil going by the valve helps prolong the life of the valve guide even though it reduces efficiency because of the carbon deposits and slower velocity/flow into the combustion chamber.
I've used catch cans in two situations:
GDI L86 (PCV to can to vacuum port as stated)
Racey motor with crankcase vacuum pump (crankcase (valve cover or valley pan) to vacuum pump to catch can with breather)
Vacuum pumps move a lot of air to create that vacuum and you don't want to pump that oil vapor right onto the road/track in front of you.
I can also see where some engines that have a lot of wear or blowby might benefit from preventing too much oil from going back in and caking on the valves.
I also think a good baffle is very important in all types of PCV (intake vacuum source or vacuum pump) situations to keep most of the oil vapor in the engine so it never gets sucked out in the first place. A good baffle inside the engine separates the oil mist and not the water vapor because it never cools off.
There are a large number of articles and videos online about the valve problems with direct injection engines. Ford had a huge problem with them.
Not only does the carbon and other gunk build up behind the valve and restricts flow, it can even hold the valve open slightly. Ford started injecting solvent into the intake system when a car would come it with that problem. That turned out to make things worse if the engine was a turbo.
Then, all that gunk slammed into the turbo and it died after a couple hundred miles. The Ecoboost engines were the worst of the bunch.
Ford supposedly put out a service bulletin about pulling the heads and doing a mechanical cleaning instead of the solvent.
You can do a search on Youtube on Ecoboost problems, or direct injection problems or catch can and find lots of examples.
Not only does the carbon and other gunk build up behind the valve and restricts flow, it can even hold the valve open slightly. Ford started injecting solvent into the intake system when a car would come it with that problem. That turned out to make things worse if the engine was a turbo.
Then, all that gunk slammed into the turbo and it died after a couple hundred miles. The Ecoboost engines were the worst of the bunch.
Ford supposedly put out a service bulletin about pulling the heads and doing a mechanical cleaning instead of the solvent.
You can do a search on Youtube on Ecoboost problems, or direct injection problems or catch can and find lots of examples.
This is the intake and valves on my 14 Silverado with a 120k miles with no catch can. Make your own decision.
That's what I meant by GDI, Gasoline Direct Injection. I'm running a catch can on my 2016 direct injected L86 engine because there is no fuel going over the intake valve.
I see a lot of pictures of how bad it can be without a catch can, and obviously a catch can helps reduce the oil going through (which is why I am running one on the GDI engine).
However, I still haven't seen any results with a catch can, does it actually prevent it? Or does the fact that there is likely still some oil getting by, or still some oil potentially getting through the valve guide seals, and still no fuel going over the valve, mean that it happens anyway? I've never seen that, so if you know of a source I'd love to see it. I have had a catch can on my 2016 L86 since it was new, but I only have 35k on it. When I hit 100k, maybe I'll have an answer for you, but that will be a while. I'm getting an answer myself because I see all these "this is why you need one" pictures but no one has ever proved they actually work so I'm doing a test. I do get quite a bit of oil out of it I'll tell you that, its an "Elite Engineering E2" catch can. Whether or not its actually preventing the problem is TBD, so many people put one on there and see the oil and assume they prevented carbon buildup on the intake valve, did they really?
Of course by they time I have an answer they will be using both direct and port injection to solve the problem, or separating it better, GM already has a two stage separator they use on some of the little turbo engines.
BTW, have you ever seen the valves of a racing engine that runs on pure methanol? They look spotless, its crazy. But it smells like crap and burns your eyes. Race gas smells mo betta.
I see a lot of pictures of how bad it can be without a catch can, and obviously a catch can helps reduce the oil going through (which is why I am running one on the GDI engine).
However, I still haven't seen any results with a catch can, does it actually prevent it? Or does the fact that there is likely still some oil getting by, or still some oil potentially getting through the valve guide seals, and still no fuel going over the valve, mean that it happens anyway? I've never seen that, so if you know of a source I'd love to see it. I have had a catch can on my 2016 L86 since it was new, but I only have 35k on it. When I hit 100k, maybe I'll have an answer for you, but that will be a while. I'm getting an answer myself because I see all these "this is why you need one" pictures but no one has ever proved they actually work so I'm doing a test. I do get quite a bit of oil out of it I'll tell you that, its an "Elite Engineering E2" catch can. Whether or not its actually preventing the problem is TBD, so many people put one on there and see the oil and assume they prevented carbon buildup on the intake valve, did they really?
Of course by they time I have an answer they will be using both direct and port injection to solve the problem, or separating it better, GM already has a two stage separator they use on some of the little turbo engines.
BTW, have you ever seen the valves of a racing engine that runs on pure methanol? They look spotless, its crazy. But it smells like crap and burns your eyes. Race gas smells mo betta.
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Toyota and Ford both have the dual injection systems now, I hear Honda' GDI engine is the subject of many law suits and some countries will not allow it's import.
Kain
3/4 ton status
This is what the new can looks like it is a bit smaller but better feel like it’s better made and has a valve on it for draining so we shall see how it goes
Kain
3/4 ton status
I like it better than the blue one just feels like better Quality
