OK.locking hubs giving me greif..cant get them off..

[diesel4me]

My 82 GMC K2500 needs an axle U-joint...done one before more than once,not on this truck though,earlier ones,a '77 and a few 71-72 half tons..all had the same hubs,and were not that hard to work on,once I got the spindle off,it was a cake walk..

Well,the hubs on my '82 look similar to the usual factory ones a 1/2 ton uses,six bolts,knob looks similar,but has a phillips screw in the center of the knob..no name or brand stamped on it anywhere I can see..I suspect they are not factory ones..

Once I took off the 6 allen head bolts and popped the knob assembly off,
I discovered the axle shaft has no inner snap ring,OR a groove for one...

To get the inner clutch gear off,i had to remove a tiny phillips screw,located next to one of the threaded allen bolt holes in the outer ring..(which may be someones home brewed fix,maybe not?)...

I tried for a good half hour to get the outer snap ring out to get the outer ring thing off,there is no way its coming off--it appears the outer snap ring is not in one peice,more like 4 peices,no tapered ends or holes for snap ring pliers or a tiny screwdriver to fit in to pry the ring free,so I cant get the ring out of the groove..the outer lock ring that the allen bolts thread into is able to move in and out slightly,but I didn't dare pry on it too hard,fearing I'd bust up the outer ring assembly..and the inner gear slides freely on the axle shaft,but cant be pulled off of it either..

I got so pissed off I had to give up,put the dam thing all back together so at least I can move it,before it got dark,and had to go take some painkillers for my spine..

This sucks,because it was a nice fairly warm day ,the last one we'll have for awhile,and I hoped to have gotten that u-joint in today..


My transfer case for some reason sends power to the front shaft in 2wd,always has ,so I dont dare drive this thing with an axle joint with a cap that has a chunk missing out of it and no needle bearings,it could lock up the front axle if it decides to break..or at least will wear into the stub axle yokes..

This is my ONLY transportation too,and I have no other way to get around,so it has to be fixed ,one way or another..otherwise I'd just drive something else--say f*** it and only use it to plow the driveway,and pray it dont break in the middle of a blizzard,but knowing my luck it will be the worst winter ever,last year we had about 6 feet of snow instead of the usual 40"..

I do have a spare pair of locking hubs I saved off my 77 K2500,but that had a Dana 44 and my '82 has a 10 bolt corparate axle,I'm not so sure those hubs internal parts will work,the outer "cap" will bolt up,but I'm not sure about the spline count,and I find it strange my axle has no inner snap ring groove at all too,those older hubs need one I beleive..

If I knew they would work I'd just do whatever I had to to get these hubs off,including the torch if nessasary!..

If anyone has any ideas about getting them off I'd like to hear them..maybe they are some aftermarket hubs that are different than Dana/Spicer ones,I dont know..

I see there is a complete '87 8 lug front axle for sale on craigslist nearby with new axle joints,rotors (mine are ready to crumble in the cooling slot area),and ball joints all recently done,for 200 bucks...it has 3:23's though,I have to see what ratio my truck is,it feels high geared but maybe not that high..if the ratios matched,I'm thinking it might be easier and cheaper to roll a whole front end under it rather than spend more to patch up my existing one..?..

Other options are junking it--spending more time and money trying to resurect my 85 Suburban..or sell both,and pay someone else to plow my driveway..maybe sell the house too,and MOVE..

 

[Fordum]

Same basic setup as my Ford. That single Phillips screw is factory. Stupid looking thing, lets the locking ring stick out crooked.
There is a wire type snap ring on the shaft of the axle gear that keeps the locking ring from coming out even with the screw out.

Plus the axle locking part has to go out the back, I think. I have one of my old ones in there in a box that I took off Saturday, I'll go look if I need to.

But on mine, the outer locking ring was just a stiff piece of wire. No taper, not holes.
Had about an inch gap or so. I had some sharp picks that came in a pick kit, and the one that bends sideways at a right angle with a sharp point lifted the end right up and out.

There was a lot of grease on mine, so I do not know if the point went under the ring or stuck in the end and lifted it out.
I just jammed it at the end and twisted it and lifted out of the groove.

If yours is in pieces, it may have broken. After I got the ring out, I put in two bolts across from each other and the whole assembly slid right out.

If necessary, I can snap pics of it out of the truck and post them. Don't have pics of it in the truck.

 

[diesel4me]

Well,mine had no wire thing on the axle shaft,nor a groove for one that I could see...maybe it had a wire on it at one time,but not today..

I may try giving the hub removal another shot again once my back stops killing me..

I may get frustrated enough to ruin them to get them off if I have too,and try using my old spares,or buy others if I have too--I dont like this design,it sucks badly enough taking the old ones apart with the two snap rings,but at least I CAN ..hate to be fudging around with the ones on it now in a storm..they have worked fine though,till it came time to get them off..but if they suck to take off like this,I certainly dont want to be dicking around with them in a blizzard..

I was expecting a hard time getting the spindle off--HA,I cant even get to see the dam thing..truck is really getting me frustrated..knowing it has about 10 other major defects doesn't increase my enthusiasm to fix any of them either..

 

[Fordum]

No, you misunderstood. Mine had a two hole clip on the axle that you spread with one of those tools.
But, the instructions that came with the new hubs said that some trucks did not have that, or even a place to put a clip.

The whole assembly was held in by a stiff round wire that went around the inside of the hub housing.
Right at the end of the splines inside the hub.

Its not going to be obvious if there is a lot of grease or rust.
And it might be slightly "under" the edge of the whole locking hub assembly. You may have to push the whole thing back as far as it will go and look right the assembly stops.

In fact, I'm not sure if it might not have been a groove cut through the splines, instead of being where they end.

Take something sharp, or some brake clean type stuff, and clean around the inside of the hub right at the end of the hub assembly.

If I did not have to go to work tomorrow, I would pull the cap off the new hub and take a picture.
You should be able to see the ring easy since I cleaned it out when I put the new one on.

 

[Blue85]

Can you take a picture or find a picture online of the same design? Is it like this? http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=536415&page=2

Most of them have an annoying wire ring around the outside of the hub that keeps all the guts in. You have to get a little pick under the wire and pry it up enough to get a screwdriver or something under it. It may require several tries. Once it's out, you can grind a taper onto both ends, which makes it easier to dig out the next time. Better yet, find the version that has little ears sticking out (like the one shown here: http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...00c152/80/05/26/b5/large/0900c152800526b5.gif). You can get those with pliers and slide it right out on the first try. If that wire was broken, it couldn't stay in place, so maybe that's not what you're talking about.

 

[Stomis]

Fordum is right. You're missing the wire retainer in the wheel hub itself that it roughly the same size as the large outer splines. Its probably buried under grease. Loads of trucks came with no snap ring on the shaft.

Also the Dana 44 and 10 bolt locking hubs interchange. Fyi

 

[diesel4me]

Nope..

I see the outer retaining ring,well enough--and its not a one peice deal like the GM stock hubs I've taken off a dozen times before with no real troubles--this thing has a ring or clip thats in 6 separate segments,with a empty place in 6 spots..and I've wasted an hour already trying to force the segments of the clips inwards with tiny screwdrivers,its not even letting the screwdriver go under the clip or push it in..

I'm wondering if there is some special tool made of thin tubing with the six tabs to fit in those empty spots you'd put in and rotate,to push the clip segments inwards to release it...

I'm about 5 minutes away from getting a cold chisel and chopping the mother***** ers right out..tried calling my friend who has done hundreds of axle joint and ball joint jobs and taken off every imagineable hub before,but he's not at his shop right now..

Maybe I should just give up..let someone else do it..but I know what every garage around here will say--"we cant fix it unless you replace those rusty rotors",or they'll want 300 bucks to install an 11 dollar U-joint I can do myself,IF I could get these dam POS hubs off..
I'd go buy that whole front end first,if my truck had 3'23's in it..4 u-bolts and it would be in it in an hour..
If my GM spare hubs will work on this axle,I'm definately not putting these POS things back on it..may not have a choice,if I end up chopping them off..would not surprise me if some hack put ford hubs on it before I got the truck...

OK,now after looking at the link to the pictures on the 67-72 site ,I may be picking at the wrong clips,those hubs do look like mine..(and if they are Warns,I'm surprised,using cheap die cast looking metal on the outer peice I'm trying to get off).....
Maybe I am looking at the wrong clip,I dont know..off to go see if I'm a blind dumass or not ,I'll post back later if I get the dam thing apart!..

 

[Fordum]

Pretty sure its not a Ford. I just did one of mine, and it had the ring. Six sections? Any chance it rotates like a nut?
Seems to me I remember that you have a problem with posting pictures. Wish I could see a pic of this thing.

 

[pblaze725]

I've had my fair share of trouble removing these at the junkyard.

A pic could help.

Is there 2 little tabs on either side where you have to do the pinch and slide trick?

 

[Blue85]

Nope..

I see the outer retaining ring,well enough--and its not a one peice deal like the GM stock hubs I've taken off a dozen times before with no real troubles--this thing has a ring or clip thats in 6 separate segments,with a empty place in 6 spots

Are you sure those aren't the gaps between the outer hub splines?

 

[Fordum]

Are you sure those aren't the gaps between the outer hub splines?

That is sure what it sound like. There are six gaps. I just got home and looked at my old hub that I took out.
You can't really see the gaps too well from the front, but there are six, and they look just like he describes.

Here is a picture of my hub I took a couple of weeks ago when I was about to order the new ones.
It should look just like the one he is working on. Even has the screw in the center of the plastic locking knob, although its not shown here.

 

[diesel4me]

OK..I'm a blind dumass!....I finally saw the ring,it blended right in with those other 6 segmented things so well it was practically invisible..took a 100 watt droplight and a magnifying glass for me to see the dam thing...

After I finally found that wire ring and the ends of it,it took me a good 20 minutes of picking at it before I got the dam thing to come out,and more than once it jumped right back in too..talk about frustration..plus the cop behind me HAD to put his barking pile of dog feces outside to further irritate me!..

I had to use a dart from a dart game,sharpened to a point to get the darn thing unseated!..none of my other tools would do more than push the ring around,I had to hold it from turning with a small screwdriver while I poked and picked at the ring..after it was out,the hub came right off,and I had the axle in my hands about 5 minutes later!..the "worst" part of the job I dreaded,getting the spindle free of the knuckle,turned out to be nothing--two whacks with my 5 lb ball pein and it popped free,I was shocked!..

After the axle was off,it was no fun getting the horribly rusted u-joint out though,and I had to do a lot of hammering...to avoid conflicts with the neighbors I called the cops on last night for being obnoxious,I took it in the garage and whaled on it in there ,till the caps came off..sucked getting the old c-clips off too..was tempted to use my torch,but decided it wasn't a good idea,with so many dead dry leaves all over the place..

Managed to get the u-joint in without losing and needles or jaming one up,and I was glad of that..got the thing all back together in about 15 minutes once that was done,and by 4:30 I was putting tools away!..
I have a feeling it was almost "too easy" though..

Good thing I did decide to do this job,the wheel bearing nut was halfway off,only the inner one was still "adjusted".evidently someone didn't line the pin and holy washer up or tighten it good!....it took me about 10 attempts to get the pin lined up and the nuts tightened properly..

The wheel bearings looked fine,and so did the spindle needle bearing,everything looked like it was repacked yesterday,so I didn't bother doing it today either..the brake rotors are crispy and the cooling fins are thin,but they'll last till spring I hope..at least now I can get those hubs off easier next time,if I must replace them--but I still pray I never have to mess with the hubs during the winter..its a miserable enough job in decent weather,and a greasy one too..glad its over with..

Now ,it still needs the oil pan replaced,that job will suck ...I may just suck the oil out thru the dpistick hole and try cleaning it good and fiberglassing it,I'm not sure its worth me paying 200 bucks to have someone else do it,and I dont feel up to doing it myself..if I get rust or oil in my eyes with lens implants,that could finish them off..my sight is lousy enough as it is ..

The master cylinder has to be replaced,thats an easy peasy job...the steering colum needs a lower bushing,and a jeep shaft conversion wouldn't be a bad idea too,the rag joint is getting ready to fail--thats an involved job I'd rather not get into now---probably end up swapping the whole colum instead,I've never repaired one sucessfully..

The exhaust pipe off the manifolds are wasted on the passenger side,and I put 2 hose clamps and sheet metal over the hole in it for now,but I doubt I'd be able to get those stubs or bolts out of the manifolds,they are flaking apart in layers,soo they will be blown right thru probably..I brazed a pipe over the "stub" left on the drivers side manifold rather than deal with the studs a year or more ago,thats holding out for now,but might fail by spring too..might be able to do something similar to the remains of the passenger side pipe too...

Though I have other manifolds like new in comparison on a parts engine,it appears to me I'd have to pull the motor up at least 6" to get the old ones off..the bolts are headless,and directly in line with the frame rails.
I think I'll put off that job permanently,if I have too I'll use some "handcuff" flanges or something to get by with,if I cant add on to the remains of the old pipe near the flange..the truck is getting to the point it wont be worth fixing ,the nose is getting rotted and so is the rest of it..and I'm sick of being under it,more than I use it too..

Saw an ad on Craigslist today for TWO chevy 292 six cylinder engines in a town not far off,for 250 bucks for both!--that got me thinking...ditch the deisels,now that gas is cheaper??..no more rotted oil pan,manifolds,glow plug troubles,etc?...hmmmm.....one for the pickup,one for the Burb..sell the diesels,engines are FREE...tempting!..

 

[diesel4me]

OH,almost forgot--THANKS Fordum,for the photos,and everyone else in this thread who posted links and hints too,it saved me from spending a lot of money,and it felt good being able to accomplish something for once!..
...I would have just gave up if I had not looked at the link and the photos...that round wire clip threw me off,my other hubs have a flatter steel type ring thats a lot easier to see and get out..

 

[Fordum]

I'm just sorry it took me so long to get a pic up. You caught me right in the middle of a bunch of work at the office, and I was not getting home until after dark.

I could post from the office, but did not have access to the truck to pull a hub. Same with the old hub I pulled out.
Then, I suddenly realized I was being stupid. Back when I was wanting to order new hubs, it turned out there were two different spline counts in those models and years.
My hip did not want to let me squat down long enough to do a count, so I just pulled the cap off and used the little tilt screen on my digital camera to snap some pics of the hub while I stood up.

Then I went in the house and counted the splines on the pics.

And the pics were still in my camera. I just loaded up one of the more distant shots and posted it.
Had you not found it when you did, I was going to pull a cap back off, and do a macro shot of the locking ring.

BTW, not sure who made those hubs. Pretty sure Ford bought them from someone else.
The internal parts are a whole lot like my new Warns. Someone mentioned I think, that the standard Warns were 1/4 turn.
My premiums' outer part is lined up by the screws only. But the instructions say that the standard ones have tabs that have to line up, just like these do.

Makes me wonder if they are standard Warn hubs........

There is a patent number on the back side, I suppose there would be some way of looking it up...