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Opinions- 205, 208, or 241

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If you had a 700R4 that was built by a certain person/shop that could really hold up to abuse, you'd brag about it. I've yet to see someone in real lifeor on here come say, "I've got a big block and 39.5 boggers and I bog every weekend with no problems with my 700".


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MODESTO TRANSMISSION guys they build 700's to last, Haven't seen one of their 700's fail yet. Can think of 3 guys: one with an 87K5 with a 19" lift, 44" boggers, 454 and 4 wheels like a maniac, another with a pickup and 35's, and a 62' pro street corvette with a 900HP 468 and 33" slicks. I run 35x16 boggers spread way out on yes... 16.5x14's with a 406 that makes more torque than a stock 454 and I do Truck pulls all the time! Happy 84 K10 guy. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

85k5,3/4ton,14boltFF,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
Oh yeah, Overdrive is very important for a daily driver. Going to 38's is not the answer, that just will bog everything down. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

85k5,3/4ton,14boltFF,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
The 205 is heavy. It weighs 90lbs more than the 208. The 205 has a poor low range. The 208 hangs 3 feet below the crossmember. The 205 doesn't even hang below the frame.

The 241 is pretty cool.

The weakest part of a 208 is the case itself. High horsepower conditions will cause the case to spiderweb. I've seen them get full of cracks yet no internal problems.

The pathetic part of the 208 is the fact that it hangs down so low. I have two pieces missing out of my 208 from hooking it on logs and stumps.

The only reason I'd ever get rid of my 208 is so I could get something that didn't hang down so low for free. If someone made a clocking kit so I could lift it up a couple inches I'd buy it.

But like others have said, the transfer case isn't the weak link. The transmission will bite the dust first. That is if you don't twist the ears off stub shafts or blow spider gears in the front axle. The 700R4 can be beefed up by new front and rear planetaries and a new pump. The rest of the normal upgrade stuff applies as well (better frictions, better band, and better servos). Then I'd have faith in it. If you don't grenade the planetaries, don't overheat it, and keep it the fsck out of fourth gear when you're supposed to it'll be just fine.
 
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Funny thing... this post was never actually about the tranny at all! Rather the tcase!

As with any component on our rigs, the biggest and best can still fail and the smallest and weakest can still last. I defied logic by running locked 10 bolts front and rear with 330HP and 35s for over a year and never broke as little as a u-joint.

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1. This post is about compoenent strength. He asked simply if he should upgrade his transfer case because of big tires, a torquey motor, and constant beatings. The simple cut and dry answer is that the transfer case is plenty strong and there is no need to upgrade that. It's just forward of that where his weak link lies, reguardless of how it's built. The answer to the T-case question is leave it alone, it's fine!

You didn't defy logic by running 12.50 wide tires on locked 10 bolts. I've seen it work over and over again. It is generally accepted that 1/2 ton stuff holds up fine until you get into tires larger than that.

I run 31x10.50s every day on my DD truck which is locked in the rear and has a ground cross pin because the ring gear is so thick that a full round pin won't fit. It has a 7.5" rearend and a manual transmission, which we all know that a manual puts much stronger shockloads on drivetrain than an automatic. I have beat the snot out of that thing and had no breakage at all. Am I defying logic? Hell no! That's what this size axle was designed for and it holds up just fine. I don't believe in having show trucks or pavement trucks either, this truck has seen the '84s share of the work since it's been down for a few weeks shy of a year now.

Hmm, back to T-cases. Hell, all anyone should have said is do a search. We've covered this topic over and over to the point that I feel we're beating the dead horse. The 700R4 topic is common but not near as common as the T-case question.

I have never presented hearsay. My truck started with a 700R4. I liked it when it worked, but when it started slipping going into 3rd gear, that was it...out it came. It's in my friends '86 K10 now, but that truck just sits there anyway, nobody drives it.

So far I see two other people that agree with me. The 700R4 is the weak link. Nothing will change that but a swap. And what a perfect time! If you want a 205, it never came behind a 700R4. It did come behind a TH 350, TH 400, or SM 465. So, there you have it, have your choice of T-cases, just select which STRONGER tranny you want to swap to and have your NP 205 for free. Just like I did. Just like many others did.

I'm done. It's your truck. You sure can lead a horse to water but this is proof that you can't make him drink.
 
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The 205 is heavy. It weighs 90lbs more than the 208. The 205 has a poor low range. The 208 hangs 3 feet below the crossmember. The 205 doesn't even hang below the frame.


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You forgot about how the 205 doesn't break, and is gear driven, and is heavy cause it is steel, not aluminum /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

As for 700r4's, I don't think I would trust one. We have one in our Fullsize Van that we towed 3000 lbs with and it held up fine for the 85,000 miles we put on it, although the tranny shop that rebuilt it (at 115,000+ miles) said not to use overdrive towing, and I would also think that true for bigger than stock tires etc. Seems to me if your going for a strong drivetrain, that one would not bother with parts that have has so many problems....you just don't see a lot of posts about th350 and th400's blowing up and dying all the time. If you can build a 700r4 tough, than you can likely build a 350 or 400 a lot tougher, JMO.
 
Hmmm..
I've broken both a TH350 and a TH400. Thats why I run a 465 now. That said, I dont think I could make a 700 last. I'm not ever gonna bash on the 700 though.They are great for the most part. Of course you're gonna hear all the bad stories and very few good ones. I second what Greg mentioned about Dr. Watso, I've seen the dude wheel, he's not particulary nice to it. Even rode in his truck for a bit. Beside the point though......If Watson runs one with no problems, thats enuff for me to not bask. I think unless you have busted a huge number of 700's, you need to shut the Fuuuuck up.
 
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I guess I am just buying time these days with my 700. After all, I have only had my truck for 10 years with the 700. I have only been hardcore wheeling with big HP and big tires for a few years now. I only run it whenever I would like these days with 420 HP and 42" tires around town, on the highway, or on the trails. Guess I just don't know what I am doing and am just buying time. But anyway...


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Yeah I don't know how you can live with yourself...doh


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But like others have said, the transfer case isn't the weak link. The transmission will bite the dust first.

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Just wait til your 700 goes out and get a TH 400/NP 205 combo. You won't miss your overdrive a bit.

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Thats funny... in the last 3 years I blew 1 208 to a billion pieces replaced it with another 208 and busted the rear half to hell. Replaced with a 241, tore the inside up and went back to a 208. All on the same 700. I didnt lose the first 700 till I broke a third of the bell housing off. So far in my truck I've gone through 3 700's 2 350's and a 400. Riding on my 3rd 350 and its slipping at the momement. I will replace it with a 700. Started running 4.56 gears after the 3rd 700. My brother went though 3 400's in a year before he sold his K5.

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I suppose if you're rolling on any 16.5" tire you're not that hardcore anyway. Well, either that, or you're so hardcore you can 'wheel with your tires off the rim!


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Thats as bad as my buddy trying to convence everyone his stock tcase is 4:1....Dumbass!


As far as the tcases go .... Like I said in my earlier reply.
 
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Thats as bad as my buddy trying to convence everyone his stock tcase is 4:1....Dumbass!

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i thought i was the only one with buddies like that /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
 
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Hmmm..
If Watson runs one with no problems, thats enuff for me to not bask. I think unless you have busted a huge number of 700's, you need to shut the Fuuuuck up.

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Thank you, I can't agree more. I've broken a few TH400's in my C-30! Don't know whats so special about them. My 700 has lasted longer than any of my 400's and it's in my 4x4! I think I am going to keep my 208 and just have a good sturdy aluminum driveshaft made that is longer than my stock one to push the slip yoke on all the way like it's supposed to be. If I break an internal component I guess I will then go with a 205. Thanks guys for your opinions and support. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

85k5,3/4ton,14boltFF,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
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Seems to me if your going for a strong drivetrain, that one would not bother with parts that have has so many problems....you just don't see a lot of posts about th350 and th400's blowing up and dying all the time. If you can build a 700r4 tough, than you can likely build a 350 or 400 a lot tougher, JMO.

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The old 700's arent any good and thats why they have a bad rap. The newer ones are much better. The 700 is based on the 350 with an OD added. All 3 autos can be heavily upgraded, when aftermarket high performance parts are used the 700 and 350 are the same strength for the most part, with the 400 slightly stronger. as far as using overdrive when towing and with big tires; you should never use OD when pulling something more than a couple of thousand lbs. When big tires are equipped it is more a gearing issue that can be hard on any transmission rather than a drag or weight issue.

Just what I've heard from experienced people and my own experience.

85k5,3/4ton,14boltFF,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
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Just wait til your 700 goes out and get a TH 400/NP 205 combo. You won't miss your overdrive a bit.

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... until you have to drive back from the trail or you can't gear it as low as you might like and still be able to drive it to work ...

I personally really like my 700. Most of their problems are cooling and locking torque convertor related, which can be addressed. That said, there are a lot that have broken and you do have a point. If I pulled my K5 on and off the trailer at the trail head I might have a 400/205, but for MY purposes the 700 has been the ideal choice for over 3 years.
 
Definantly Chris, The 700 is a better all around transmission! Some of these guys say that you wouldn't miss your OD. bullshit, I probably save $25 bucks a month on gas!
Also the 700/208 is a much lighter combo. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

85k5,3/4ton,14boltFF,10bolt,9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
 
Lighter yes .. but I put the 205 on it so I could drop it on the rocks .. plus I had it behind my TH350
 
Who cares if it is gear driven? I don't. Maybe the dozen or so people that have actually worn out a chain do. And that was probably from abuse. More than half of the miles on my truck were in 4wd plowing or just driving around in the snow. My chain doesn't make noise.

I'm far more interested in case strength and how far it hangs into oblivion than anything else. The case is plenty strong until it starts to wear excessively. Its main weakness is that it hangs down into oblivion.

The only thing wrong with the 700R4 is the operator. The only reason they fail more often is because people abuse them in overdrive. The TH350 would fail just as often if it had overdrive.

The TH350 fails in the bellhousing area which neither the 700R4 nor the TH400 does. Look at how often the bellhousings crack on them. There are two people here that I know of that use aftermarket pump-mounted bellhousings.

The 700R4 is inherently weak but it can suffice. If someone were to put a TH350 in place of a 700R4 I'd tell them they have [I love Jeeps] for brains. They are taking everything good away from a 700R4 and leaving all the problems.

I'd still like to see you get 16mpg with your setup.
 
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if I wanted great milage I would drive a Geo.



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kind of like my old one?
264200_95_full.jpg

whenever i drove it people thought i was really rich /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
 
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Who cares if it is gear driven?

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If you want to do it once, you do it 205, period. Is ORD making a doubler using the 208, or 241? No, why, cause they wanted it to be strong. I can't believe you would even start in about the 205, there is no argument there, if you want strong as can be, and not pay out the ass, 205 is it.

700r4, you can keep it. 5 years on my th350 from when I bought the truck, and who knows how old it was before that, and it is still running strong. If i was worried about gas mileage, I'd pick a different truck. Just too many stories about 700r4, and they always include built up heavy duty and all this crap. You have to get the 700r4 built up to be worth a [I love Jeeps], and thats no garantee. My th350 is probably stock, nothing special, no money put into for heavy duty this, and special that, and it works. My whole point is that one would be better off with a stock 350/205 set-up for little money and little worry.

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I'd still like to see you get 16mpg with your setup.

[/ QUOTE ]wrong damn vehicles to be worring about gas mileage, if you can't afford it get something else.
 
...to continue beating this poor, dead f#%@$! horse....
I like the my 241... no plans to get rid of it... JB Conversions makes a fixed yoke kit for it if you don't like the slip yoke.
As far as the 700.....
I ditched mine after a few unsuccessful rebuild attempts for a SM465. Though the manual was nice, I regretted getting rid of the 700. As has been stated and can say from experience I've seen the 700s work and I've seen them fail.
Bottom line... run whatcha got 'til it breaks, then rebuild with top shelf aftermarket parts...
 
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The 700 is a better all around transmission! Some of these guys say that you wouldn't miss your OD. bullshit,

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Yeah I'll call bull$hit on that too. Hell I miss the low first gear and the OD. Just in gearing alone from a 700/208 to a 400/205 is a drastic change.

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The 700R4 is inherently weak but it can suffice. If someone were to put a TH350 in place of a 700R4 I'd tell them they have [I love Jeeps] for brains.

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Thanks alot [I love Jeeps] face... I knew there was a reason for my mushy forehead.
 
ORD makes the doubler with the easiest to use parts they can. How "easy" do you think it'd be to make a doubler out of a 208 or 241? Not very would be a good guess.


My truck was built in November of 1983. Therefore it got one of the first 700R4s. It spent the first six years as a plow truck in an area that receives no less than 240" of snow each season. It received a lot of abuse from the previous two owners (brothers) including overfilling the transmission.

When I got it, 31" tires followed by 33" tires were put on it with 2.73 gears. Not long after I stuck a very warm 350 in it and ran it hard. Blown spider gears kind of hard. Then I put a 305 that produces more horsepower but less low-end torque and flog the transmission periodically with 6,000rpm manual shifts.

I now have 3.42 gears and run 33s with a 4" lift. I get 16mpg on the highway with those gears. I used to only get 12mpg because I had to run third gear all the time. I still get 10-11mpg in the city but I drive a little harder than the average person.


Anyway, I have one of the first 700R4s and have never had a problem with it. I was the only person to change the filter in its life. Even if you beat the [I love Jeeps] out of it the transmission will endure it as long as you don't neglect it. Neglect being not keeping the fluid and filter clean. Neglect being overheating it. Neglect being running fourth gear when you shouldn't. Outside of the fourth gear garbage the weakest part are the planetaries. How many people do you know that have broken a 700R4 without smoking the clutchpacks for fourth gear?
 
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ORD makes the doubler with the easiest to use parts they can. How "easy" do you think it'd be to make a doubler out of a 208 or 241? Not very would be a good guess.


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Easiest way is not the way ORD designed the doubler...you talk about people saying crap about the 700r4 who don't know anything about it, then you open your mouth about the doubler. ORD designed the doubler to be as strong as possible, hence the reason you need a 32 spline 205 and not the more common "easier" to find 27 spline version.

And I'm still sticking to not using the 700r4, you can't tell me there are not regular posts with I lost 4th, then 3rd, then 2nd, or tranny went out, etc etc and 700r4 is the tranny having the problem. If nothing else it has more of history than the 350 or 400 and it sounds like rebuilds can be hit and miss. I can't dump money into a rebuild that will leave me uncertain, so I'll stick to the old reliable even if it doesn't have as low of a 1st gear or OD. Guess it don't matter since I don't use it as a DD, its pretty much off-road only or camping /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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