Optima batteries, 4/10/18...battery status update

[OptimaJim]

ashman, I am honestly trying to help Tim, but sometimes the communication limitations of message boards can make that challenging for everyone involved. Tim, I am sorry for the frustration you are experiencing and I really do want to help you sort this thing out. I hope you can understand that when I read a post from you indicating you had a 60 milliamp draw with your alarm off and a 53 milliamp draw with your alarm on, it raises a valid question as to whether your alarm is really active when you are measuring your draw. If that were the case, it would suggest that your alarm not only uses no energy, but actually creates energy.

I did not claim your draw was 2.54 amps, as again your decimal point is in the wrong place. I did indicate that based on what you posted about your battery measuring 12.57 volts after being parked with the alarm on for three days, that your battery at that point was about 35% discharged. Based on your voltage reading and a capacity rating of 55 amps on a battery fully-charged at about 13.0-13.2 volts, that would suggest a draw of about 254 milliamps (or .254 amps) during those three days, if it was fully-charged when you parked it.

I don't personally have any experience with the AutoPage RS1000 w/C3, but my boss had an Autopage alarm in his truck, although it didn't have the cellular/GPS capability of your alarm. His draw with the alarm on was significantly higher than the less than 60 milliamps you have been measuring. Although I have owned two Suburbans in the past, I currently own an Excursion and an Expedition and the parasitic draw you posted in your video is consistent with the draw on both of my current vehicles. The difference is, neither one of them has a car alarm. As I mentioned before, if you are measuring in the range of 50 to 60 milliamps with your alarm on, I would be interested in seeing how much it declines with the alarm off. I did send you a PM last week and my offer to assist you still stands. If you haven't received it, let me know and I will re-send it.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[blazin' j]

Do you have to take your battery back to the same place you got it from & what is the free warranty period for the yellow top??? I was under the impression it was 3 yrs from date of purchase & when mine were returned to where the shop I got em from, they were told they were out of warranty, after only 2yrs...

 

[jeff in co]

Do you have to take your battery back to the same place you got it from & what is the free warranty period for the yellow top??? I was under the impression it was 3 yrs from date of purchase & when mine were returned to where the shop I got em from, they were told they were out of warranty, after only 2yrs...

It should be 3 years from the date of purchase. I just replaced my 2 yr old yellow top in my 04' suburban under warranty. And yes, I needed the receipt for proof of purchase from Advanced Auto.

Just 5 days ago, the blazer's battery started going south so I needed a new battery. I actually bought a Costco one (made by Johnson) for $85.....same warranty as yellow top and a slightly higher cold cranking rating. But after looking at my original battery's acid leak on the terminals, I returned the Costco one and picked up the yellow top. I bought the yellow top "mainly" because of the acid issue, and also past experience with car stereo performance. Definitley not on battery life longevity. I also got 15% off at Advanced Auto to help justify the $200 price tag.......

I can say that the yellow top did help with powering the aftermarket stereo in the suburban. With the traditional battery, the draw would be too great at full volume and the headlights would dim on each bass beat. The yellow top was able to steady this electrical draw and the headlights did not dim anymore. So yes, there are some advantages to the yellow top.

Strickly going by memory, my red top from 12 years ago "seemed" to last longer than the 2 year old yellow top though.

Just my 2 cents.....

 

[nsxxtreme]

nsxxtreme, as I indicted in the previous post, which you did not quote, those calculations assume a battery is fully-charged when parked (which is not always the case) and does not take into consideration the impact of climate, which can lengthen (moderate temps) or shorten (heat) those timeframes. The best way to verify the health battery is to load test it after attempting to fully-charge it. However, most folks do not have load testers in their garage and would rather not haul a battery into a retailer to have it load-tested. In most cases, if a battery can hold voltage for 12-24 hours when disconnected from a vehicle, it will work just fine in a vehicle.

Hi Jim,

Not trying to pick you apart but just measing voltage with a DMM isn't a very good test at all. The Optima I yanked out of my Range Rover measured 12.67 volts but when loaded tested was only capable of supplying 33 amps. A better test might be someone measureing the battery voltage while trying to turn over the car. No need for a fancy load tester in that case.

I'd add that the battery I yanked from the NSX and was always on a battery tender also read 12V. That one is deader then a door nail.

 

[nsxxtreme]

So here is the no **** video showing the draw with the alarm on. As you can CLEARLY see it never goes over 60 mA and it NEVER DID I don't give a **** if it makes sense to you!!! The POS optima is the trouble.

I recommend you try this. Your DMM is a fairly decent one with a min/max setting. You could plug that thing in and leave it over night. You should be able to go out the next day and toggle the min/max button and see if anytime during the night your current went up. I would recommend you do this in the Amp mode not the milli amp mode. That meter is only capable of <400 milliamps in the milli amp mode.

 

[cuervo]

I don't personally have any experience with the AutoPage RS1000 w/C3, but my boss had an Autopage alarm in his truck, although it didn't have the cellular/GPS capability of your alarm. His draw with the alarm on was significantly higher than the less than 60 milliamps you have been measuring.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

So wtf, I have to make another video to show me turning the alarm on and off now? I don't currently believe it to be 53 mA, the video proves that it IS less then 60 mA with the alarm on.

Like I said, post up more about how it's not the battery.

How about you get your boss to do a video of his draw with the alarm on?

As far as the lame comment that my alarm MAKES energy, I just happen to take the still photo when the readout was at 53.1 mA. As the video shows it ranges between 53 and 59. Yes lame, and stupid we know it doesn't make energy but you want to make some sort of extra point out of it. Just more bull**** that it has to be anything other then the battery. How damn stupid of comment was that? It doesn't raise a valid point as to weather or not my alarm was on. It's just more crap to pile on the fire.

As far as your offer I could just take the battery back to the store but then I'd just end up with another POS optima. No thanks. You're not a hero in this thread.

 

[cuervo]

I recommend you try this. Your DMM is a fairly decent one with a min/max setting. You could plug that thing in and leave it over night. You should be able to go out the next day and toggle the min/max button and see if anytime during the night your current went up. I would recommend you do this in the Amp mode not the milli amp mode. That meter is only capable of <400 milliamps in the milli amp mode.

If I do that I have to do it in Amps not mA. When you turn the alarm on it goes higher then the 300 mA allowed and will kill the fuse.

Before Jim jumps in and ask how I got the reading with the alarm on if it would kill the fuse... I put a jumper wire from the neg term to the cable then turned on the alarm and removed the jumper wire.

 

[nsxxtreme]

If I do that I have to do it in Amps not mA. When you turn the alarm on it goes higher then the 300 mA allowed and will kill the fuse.

Before Jim jumps in and ask how I got the reading with the alarm on if it would kill the fuse... I put a jumper wire from the neg term to the cable then turned on the alarm and removed the jumper wire.

It kills the fuse because it probably locks the doors. Which is why I said do it in amp mode. Your readings wont be as precise but good enough.

 

[cuervo]

It kills the fuse because it probably locks the doors. Which is why I said do it in amp mode. Your readings wont be as precise but good enough.

Ah, in my blinding rage I didn't see that and yes it does lock the doors and that draw looks like 1.95. I did set it up in amp mode for the night. I wish there was a way to record the entire night to see if it does go high I'd like to know for how long and how often.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Ah, in my blinding rage I didn't see that and yes it does lock the doors and that draw looks like 1.95. I did set it up in amp mode for the night. I wish there was a way to record the entire night to see if it does go high I'd like to know for how long and how often.

It wont tell you when or how long it occured, it will however tell you what the max current was during the night. So if something goes off and uses a bunch of current and then drops back off to normal it will capture the high current event just toggle min/max button. Either do your shorting trick or set your alarm up to auto arm otherwise you will capture the door lock event as you max current event.

That would be a good way to check to make sure your using your multimeter correctly. Measure current then toggle your door locks. Then toggle min/max you should see the higher current the door locks used.

 

[cuervo]

It wont tell you when or how long it occured, it will however tell you what the max current was during the night. So if something goes off and uses a bunch of current and then drops back off to normal it will capture the high current event just toggle min/max button. Either do your shorting trick or set your alarm up to auto arm otherwise you will capture the door lock event as you max current event.

That would be a good way to check to make sure your using your multimeter correctly. Measure current then toggle your door locks. Then toggle min/max you should see the higher current the door locks used.

Yeah, Jim wants to use this as the entire reason for my issues, well that and my math skills or the lack there of.

 

[cuervo]

I did not claim your draw was 2.54 amps, as again your decimal point is in the wrong place. I did indicate that based on what you posted about your battery measuring 12.57 volts after being parked with the alarm on for three days, that your battery at that point was about 35% discharged. Based on your voltage reading and a capacity rating of 55 amps on a battery fully-charged at about 13.0-13.2 volts, that would suggest a draw of about 254 milliamps (or .254 amps) during those three days, if it was fully-charged when you parked it.

Well considering that when I drove over to purchase my new Interstate battery and had the optima check it was like 12.84, which you so eagerly pointed out because it fit into your agenda, and not 13.0 so there wasn't a 35% discharge now was it. You're the one that says batteries are never fully charged when park but when it comes to making your product look good you sure will use that number wont you. You're also very quick to point out that charging systems are always at fault. Or when you need to make someone look bad you'll go back to using the I bet it wasn't fully charged when party line.

The facts still remain. The charging system is fine. The draw is no greater then 60 mA and Optima batteries will not last for the long term with a draw of 60 mA in a daily driver.

I check the overnight draw min and max and it was 50 min and 60 max but since we know the fluke rounds up I'm gonna say it was never over 59 mA with the alarm on. Yes, Jim I said with the Alarm on!

 

[cuervo]

At first I was just going to blow off the other video, but the more I thought about it the more it seem that Jim is trying to use my lack of technical understanding of the multimeter reading to justify all his post about why it can't be that Optima batteries don't fail from a static draw of 60 mA.

To top that off he pretty much called me a lier saying my alarm could not be on or that it has to draw more then 60 mA because his boss' alarm does. Hell, your boss doesn't even have the same model alarm as mine.

So here is the video, Jim. Now tell me the alarm is not on and that it is drawing more the 60 mA.

 

[ryoken]

this thread makes me sad..... I hate clicking on it...

 

[imiceman44]

I am sorry man, but you just proved with this video that your alarm doesn't draw anything.
But I think the easiest way to prove the Optima was the problem is if you changed to a die hard, and the problem went away.
Did you do that?

At first I was just going to blow off the other video, but the more I thought about it the more it seem that Jim is trying to use my lack of technical understanding of the multimeter reading to justify all his post about why it can't be that Optima batteries don't fail from a static draw of 60 mA.

To top that off he pretty much called me a lier saying my alarm could not be on or that it has to draw more then 60 mA because his boss' alarm does. Hell, your boss doesn't even have the same model alarm as mine.

So here is the video, Jim. Now tell me the alarm is not on and that it is drawing more the 60 mA.

 

[cuervo]

What it proves is the alarm is on and that it is drawing less then 60 mA. How much it does it really need to monitor a closed door switch?

What else it proves is that since it is hard wire to constant power is that it draws NO more electricity when armed then when unarmed. It has the same draw both armed and unarmed. So while Jim THINKS it could not be armed because it wasn't a high enough draw for his liking, it was in fact ON and ARMED.

Regardless of the small change in draw the fact remains, the alarm is ON and the draw is LESS then 60 mAs and the battery went tits up in less then 6 months.

I installed an Interstate battery because I was done dicking with optima. I'm not the only one in this thread with the same issue.

 

[cuervo]

this thread makes me sad..... I hate clicking on it...

You think it makes you sad, imagine how I feel.

 

[imiceman44]

So my question was, did you switch to another battery and nothing else, and the probelm went away?
You didn't disconnect anything else, and you are not disconnecting the battery all the time, and the battery is doing fine in the same conditions that were when the optima was there?
That proves that the optima was defective, but if you changed anything else at the same time or your habits changed in anyway, it doesn't prove anything.

What it proves is the alarm is on and that it is drawing less then 60 mA. How much it does it really need to monitor a closed door switch?

What else it proves is that since it is hard wire to constant power is that it draws NO more electricity when armed then when unarmed. It has the same draw both armed and unarmed. So while Jim THINKS it could not be armed because it wasn't a high enough draw for his liking, it was in fact ON and ARMED.

Regardless of the small change in draw the fact remains, the alarm is ON and the draw is LESS then 60 mAs and the battery went tits up in less then 6 months.

I installed an Interstate battery because I was done dicking with optima. I'm not the only one in this thread with the same issue.

 

[cuervo]

So my question was, did you switch to another battery and nothing else, and the probelm went away?
You didn't disconnect anything else, and you are not disconnecting the battery all the time, and the battery is doing fine in the same conditions that were when the optima was there?
That proves that the optima was defective, but if you changed anything else at the same time or your habits changed in anyway, it doesn't prove anything.

I didn't change anything and the new battery went in about a week ago I guess. Maybe less.

I've not had an issue since changing the battery.

 

[imiceman44]

I didn't change anything and the new battery went in about a week ago I guess. Maybe less.

I've not had an issue since changing the battery.

how long before the Optima went dead?
If it passes that time and still works fine then you need to move on.