Optima batteries, 4/10/18...battery status update

[nsxxtreme]

What it proves is the alarm is on and that it is drawing less then 60 mA. How much it does it really need to monitor a closed door switch?

What else it proves is that since it is hard wire to constant power is that it draws NO more electricity when armed then when unarmed. It has the same draw both armed and unarmed. So while Jim THINKS it could not be armed because it wasn't a high enough draw for his liking, it was in fact ON and ARMED.

I think what a lot of people expect is for the alarm to use a bunch of current in the arm state. I would not expect it to use much more current armed then disarmed with the primary source of current draw being the LED light that blinks when armed. An LED light that blinks is actually probably to fast and to low of a current for the multimeter to catch since it will be RMS current. So minor changes won't show up when the major source of current is comming from somewhere else.

About the best think you could do would be to measure the current draw with the alarm power wire disconnected. Then measure the current throught the power wire of the alarm. Add to two tegether and you will get the total current which should be around 60mA.

Your kinda beating a dead horse here as you already know the source of the problem but if you feel like doing it that is what I would do.

 

[Blue85]

I doubt the "armed" current varies much because of a blinking LED. There should be some capacitors on the power lines which should smooth it out enough that you basically just see the average current.

 

[cuervo]

how long before the Optima went dead?
If it passes that time and still works fine then you need to move on.

I've pretty much already moved on.

The only reason for continuing to post videos and discussion is to warn other people that have a static draw in the 50 mA range that might be thinking about buying a $200 optima battery. They just can't handle it over six month period of time.

Well that and to put to bed the idea that some how my poor reading on a multimeter was the cause of all my troubles, or that some how my alarm could not be on because it wasn't drawing a ton of amps, or that there must be something wrong with my charging system, or that my poor math skills or miss placed decimal were the reason for the Optima going tits up in less then six months.

Sometime over the weekend I'll probably pull the power wire off for the alarm just see what it alone draws, or not.

And your sig has to be half a page long!!!

 

[cuervo]

Now I'm getting PMs from Jim saying my alarm draws more then 60 mA.

Bull****!! Look at the last video there Jimmie.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Now I'm getting PMs from Jim saying my alarm draws more then 60 mA.

Bull****!! Look at the last video there Jimmie.

I don't know what those alarms draw by themselves as the manuals don't say what the sleep mode armed state is. I'd be a little shocked if it drew 60mA in its sleep state. I'd expect somewhere in the 20mA range. Some alarms the longer you leave them armed have deeper sleep states. Basically they just slow down the frequency of the blinking LED. The LED will consume most of the current.

 

[4xcrazy]

I Have an alarm installed in this 2wd burb I currently have here, with paging/remote start capabilities, it has sat in the driveway for upwards of 2 weeks, never started, alarm armed, and with the medium grade Autozone battery in it,, when I went out to start it, it still had more than enough cranking power to get the motor/TBI unit reprimed and fired up. Sitting that long usually takes a bit longer to get started.

So this idea that an alarm on a vehicle being the only cause for a failing battery, bullsh!t...

I have worked as a counter monkey at an auto parts store in the past for awhile, seen alot of batteries come in to be teted or replaced, when they are hooked up to the test machine, the first thing seen is the voltage, just sitting there they can read at the "normal" range, but once that load test is performed, if I saw anything drop down to less than 8-9 volts, 9 times out of ten it was a bad battery, mainly a bad single cell usually.

I'm not claiming to be a pro with the batteries and all knowledgable, just stating what I have seen/experienced inthe past, more than one or two times.

 

[imiceman44]

I Have an alarm installed in this 2wd burb I currently have here, with paging/remote start capabilities, it has sat in the driveway for upwards of 2 weeks, never started, alarm armed, and with the medium grade Autozone battery in it,, when I went out to start it, it still had more than enough cranking power to get the motor/TBI unit reprimed and fired up. Sitting that long usually takes a bit longer to get started.

So this idea that an alarm on a vehicle being the only cause for a failing battery, bullsh!t...

I have worked as a counter monkey at an auto parts store in the past for awhile, seen alot of batteries come in to be teted or replaced, when they are hooked up to the test machine, the first thing seen is the voltage, just sitting there they can read at the "normal" range, but once that load test is performed, if I saw anything drop down to less than 8-9 volts, 9 times out of ten it was a bad battery, mainly a bad single cell usually.

I'm not claiming to be a pro with the batteries and all knowledgable, just stating what I have seen/experienced inthe past, more than one or two times.

Well I thought that was the case but if you look a couple of posts above, he says the truck sat for 6 months, not a couple of weeks.

 

[imiceman44]

Here.

I've pretty much already moved on.

The only reason for continuing to post videos and discussion is to warn other people that have a static draw in the 50 mA range that might be thinking about buying a $200 optima battery. They just can't handle it over six month period of time.

Well that and to put to bed the idea that some how my poor reading on a multimeter was the cause of all my troubles, or that some how my alarm could not be on because it wasn't drawing a ton of amps, or that there must be something wrong with my charging system, or that my poor math skills or miss placed decimal were the reason for the Optima going tits up in less then six months.

Sometime over the weekend I'll probably pull the power wire off for the alarm just see what it alone draws, or not.

And your sig has to be half a page long!!!

 

[cuervo]

Well I thought that was the case but if you look a couple of posts above, he says the truck sat for 6 months, not a couple of weeks.

I never said the truck sat for six months. The battery went tits up in six months while in daily use. It never sat more then 5 days.

 

[imiceman44]

I never said the truck sat for six months. The battery went tits up in six months while in daily use. It never sat more then 5 days.

My bad, it wasn't clear that way.

 

[cuervo]

Well, when it was proven that my draw was 60 mA I was told that was wrong because Jim's boss said his alarm had a higher draw.

When I did an overnight check of my draw with the alarm on and it showed the low of 50 mA and the high of 60 mA. I was again told the alarm must be drawing more current.

Even after I made a video showing the draw with the alarm on was not over 60 mA Jim told me he called Autopage and an install tech said their alarms draw a lot of current (could not say how much current) and would kill a battery in less then two weeks. (funny, my truck never sat for more then 5 days).

Well, I took the POS Optima battery back to Oreilly's Auto Parts today and exchanged it at no cost, because they both went tits up in less then the 3 year warranty period, I finally found the true trouble with Optima batteries and 60 mA draw...

I guess I can use it to start my lawn mower for season.

 

[imiceman44]

Well, when it was proven that my draw was 60 mA I was told that was wrong because Jim's boss said his alarm had a higher draw.

When I did an overnight check of my draw with the alarm on and it showed the low of 50 mA and the high of 60 mA. I was again told the alarm must be drawing more current.

Even after I made a video showing the draw with the alarm on was not over 60 mA Jim told me he called Autopage and an install tech said their alarms draw a lot of current (could not say how much current) and would kill a battery in less then two weeks. (funny, my truck never sat for more then 5 days).

Well, I took the POS Optima battery back to Oreilly's Auto Parts today and exchanged it at no cost, because they both went tits up in less then the 3 year warranty period, I finally found the true trouble with Optima batteries and 60 mA draw...

I guess I can use it to start my lawn mower for season.

 

[OptimaJim]

I contacted Tim via PM, because I do want to help him and I am not trying to cast him or his efforts in a negative light on a public forum. Since he posted the basics of what I sent him here, he probably won't mind if I post exactly what I sent him-

"Tim,

I know you've indicated you've moved on and I can appreciate the frustration you've been through with your truck. I really do want to help you work through this issue, which is why I am sending you a PM, instead of posting this information in the thread.

I called Autopage late on Friday and was able to speak with Jonathan on their tech line. Very nice guy and very helpful. I presented Jonathan with a scenario where I parked my truck at the airport with one of their alarm systems armed and asked about how long it would take for the alarm to drain a typical battery. I didn't even mention a specific alarm model and he replied about two weeks.

I then asked if they indicated what the typical parasitic draw from their alarms was and he replied 60 milliamps. I asked if that was the same for alarms that had GPS/Cellular features and he indicated those alarms had an even higher draw.

Jonathan's numbers are not out of line at all with what I've seen with several other alarm manufacturers and brands. I'm not sure what was going on when you were measuring your draw and I understand I'm not your preferred messenger for explaining the draw on typical car alarms. I would encourage you to call Autopage directly and ask them what the current draw on your alarm system is and how long your vehicle can sit with the alarm on before it discharges a battery. Their number is 800-262-2527."

When I asked Jonathan about their alarms that have GPS/Cellular features like Tim's, Jonathan indicated the draw was 80 milliamps and because it wasn't clear whether that was an additional 80 milliamps or 80 milliamps total, I didn't mention either one, but both are significantly higher than 60 milliamps. Even if the alarm only drew the 20 milliamps nsxxtreme cited, it doesn't explain why Tim saw no significant difference when he took his own measurements.

As I mentioned in my PM to him, I understand that because I work for a battery company, people aren't always willing to listen to or believe what I post. If that is the case, it is easy enough to simply call the alarm company (at least in the case of Autopage) and ask them the questions I did.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[cuervo]

Yes, it does explain in it, Jim.

The alarm is always monitoring the system no matter what the current state is and it appears that it uses no more current in either state. The only difference is the small blue LED light that blinks. How to account for the facts in the video? I clearly arm the alarm and then show the measurement of current. It's not smoke and mirrors.

What were Jonathan's qualifications? Was he just tech guy that reads out of a book of how to trouble shoot an alarm to to some poor installer in the field? Why would he not be more specific about what the draw was and why would you, of all people, not ask a more specific question about the draw since that was the reason for your call? If it didn't explain why I didn't see a "significant difference" then why would you not ask that question? You're the one that made the call so I'm guessing it's once again to cast doubt on information and lead people to believe it couldn't be the fault of the non USA made battery that has poor quality control these days.

Once again, the video shows exactly what the alarm draws. Why is that so hard for you to believe? I guess I'll disconnect the power to the alarm and do another video.

Jim, I'd be the first one to eat some crow if I could find any other reason for the batteries to fail, if there was one. But, that just isn't the case here.

 

[cuervo]

I hope this ends the idea that my readings were not correct or that the Optima battery could not be a POS.

The alarm draws an amazing 28 mA either armed or unarmed. Whatever the tech guy Jon told was wrong. I have proof and it is proof that no one can dispute!

My Suburban has a static draw of under 60 mA. My Autopage alarm draws 28 mAs and the combined draw of the stereo and computer is around 33 mA.

Have a nice day! I have to go jump my lawn mower now.

I do welcome any feedback that might prove my testing to be wrong or other ideas that I should put to a test.

 

[ashman]

I do welcome any feedback that might prove my testing to be wrong or other ideas that I should put to a test.

wish I was smart enough to come up with some crazy test to make you do now, just to see if you'd do it.

 

[cuervo]

wish I was smart enough to come up with some crazy test to make you do now, just to see if you'd do it.

I guess I'll never need to worry about that.

 

[ashman]

dammit!

 

[nsxxtreme]

The alarm draws an amazing 28 mA either armed or unarmed. Whatever the tech guy Jon told was wrong. I have proof and it is proof that no one can dispute!.

Sometimes I know what I am talking about

If their alarms drew 60mA they should probably get into another buisness. There is no need to use a bunch of current while monitoring a couple door pins. Most of the alarm should be in a heavy sleep state including the GPS until their is an event that tells it to wake up.

I'm not an alarm designer but I do know circuits. I designs chips all day.

 

[cuervo]

Sometimes I know what I am talking about

If their alarms drew 60mA they should probably get into another buisness. There is no need to use a bunch of current while monitoring a couple door pins. Most of the alarm should be in a heavy sleep state including the GPS until their is an event that tells it to wake up.

I'm not an alarm designer but I do know circuits. I designs chips all day.

Yeah, I don't want to use the term "didn't make sense" but when the total draw was 60 mA there was no way the alarm would do 80 by itself.

I was kind of happy to see the computer alone only drew 7 mA. On the other hand 20+ on the stereo seems high so I check all the wiring on it and it all was good. I was thinking the remote on wire might have been wired wrong but it was not. The stereo came wired in the sub when I got it.

I guess the best part in all this is I have gone through all the after market wiring now.

You guys know I'll be following this up as time goes on with updates on my battery state.