What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

ORD Zero Rates

Have I seen a centering bolt break, yes, absolutely. That is why I commented. When it did break, the axle slid back and bottomed out the driveshaft, trashing the transfer case adapter.


"He does happen to do this sort of thing for a living."

Really? He makes hardware? Or he's an engineer?

"What do you do? Oh yeah, thats right, you work at an auto parts store. And what, for maybe 2 years?"

Yes, that's right. In fact I bet that an auto parts store just like mine may be expected at some time to supply a shop like Dr. Watson's with hardware.

"My rolling eyes is mostly directed to your delivery. You did improve for a short time after posting that sobbing apology in the Lounge."

I don't see anything wrong with my delivery. There isn't anything smart ass about it at all. If you do, that's unfortunate.

All of you should know better than to use a Grade 2 bolt in a spring, and because of that, I'm done on this issue.
 
Tell us Timmay, what holds the leaf spring in place on the axle, the u-bolts or the centering pin? I believe the ubolts, if properly torqued, do 99% of the work holding the spring to the axle. By the way Timmay, you always seem so concerned about what other people do to their rigs that may make them unsafe, but how about the statement you said to me a while back? I believe you said that NOTHING on your vehicle is torqued except the rod and main bolts. THAT seems very unsafe to me, more unsafe that using grade 2 centering pin bolts.

Awaiting your smartass reply.....
 
[ QUOTE ]
Tell us Timmay, what holds the leaf spring in place on the axle, the u-bolts or the centering pin?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to point this out to him also. Probably 99% or so of the center pin failures are loose u-bolts. I am sure he has a differing thought on this, you know, because he knows hardware.
 
Well, I actually am an engineer and I do know a few things about fasteners but just for a backup I made a few calls and couldn't find anyone that had any kind of a strength spec on a spring center pin. Everybody said the same thing I've said here, they're really soft, probably grade 2 and if you have problems breaking a center pin, tighten your ubolts.
In this application I can't see any problems with using a higher grade fastener but be aware that it shouldn't be necessary. Using on a 3/8" bolt mounted in single shear to hold an axle under a truck isn't going to happen no matter what grade it is.

As for using a grade 2 on a vehicle: At one point, Beck (employee here) used a totally non graded 3/4" bolt on his tierod with a heim at one point with the idea that it would be a fuse to protect the knuckle but when he smacked a tree with the tire, it still ripped the knuckle arm totally off. Hmmm, a non graded fastener is TOO strong? I'll still run grade 8 bolts on steering linkage but it's nice to know this.
And can you believe that Warn sends grade 5 bolts to hold their winches to the truck? I'm guessing they designed the mounting system and found that a grade 5 bolt was the right tool for the job, not a cheap irresponsible choice.

It's good to have a bullsh*t detector and I certainly don't mind having things I've said run through one, just have something to back it up when you make the call.
 
You'd think one would get tired of being wrong, but no, not Tim....least it keeps things interesting 'round here! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I already ate it all, but I'll pop some more... /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Really? He makes hardware? Or he's an engineer?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I actually am an engineer...

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine that foot would taste better with a Coke, some salt and ketchup. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
 
All of the above. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif


Hey... is that popcorn ready yet? Here, have a Coke. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
It's good to have a bullsh*t detector and I certainly don't mind having things I've said run through one, just have something to back it up when you make the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, I was done on this issue, but I pulled out my own instructions from my zero rates.

I'm assuming you're sure exactly what the words read:

Third paragraph from the bottom, the last two sentences.

"You need to use a 3/8" grade 5 bolt. A higher grade is not necessary but won't hurt anything either."

Probably typed with your very own fingers. So, either you're wrong on the strength of a centering bolt, or you are contradicting your own instructions. Take your pick.

Once again, not owned. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
You'd think one would get tired of being wrong, but no, not Tim....least it keeps things interesting 'round here! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I'm just wrong because I can read and follow the Dr's own directions.

I've got my copy of the instructions included with my zero rates. If anyone has any question as to how they read, I'll be glad to scan them for you.
 
How they read?

what if you have pro comp springs???? does it say anything about a 5/16" bolt???
 
[ QUOTE ]
How they read?

what if you have pro comp springs???? does it say anything about a 5/16" bolt???

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. It says that if you have to downgrade to a smaller bolt, use a weaker one. So I guess if you have a 5/16" hole in your spring you use a grade two, but if it's a 3/8", grade 5 or higher is required.

I don't think that ABSOLUTELY this must be a grade 8 bolt in that hole--but it should certainly be grade 5 or better. To tell someone that a grade two is sufficient for any automotive application is foolish IMO.

You can disagree, and potentially in a technical sense, I am wrong, (I am going to do further research on this issue) however, I don't think that there is any reason for a grade two bolt to ever be used in an automobile, and certainly not in as important a place as this.

This didn't have to be a pissing contest, it has simply become that way. A simple disagreement isn't an issue IMO until it becomes this, which is total crap.

Whether I am right or wrong, I will never willingly put a grade two or similar fastener in my rig no matter where it is.
 
[ QUOTE ]
if you have problems breaking a center pin, tighten your ubolts

In this application I can't see any problems with using a higher grade fastener but be aware that it shouldn't be necessary.

Using on a 3/8" bolt mounted in single shear to hold an axle under a truck isn't going to happen no matter what grade it is.

I'll still run grade 8 bolts on steering linkage but it's nice to know this.


And can you believe that Warn sends grade 5 bolts to hold their winches to the truck? I'm guessing they designed the mounting system and found that a grade 5 bolt was the right tool for the job, not a cheap irresponsible choice

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, re-reading your post:

1. agree 100%

2. I don't see the need for a higher than grade five fastener either, but grade two is unacceptable IMO.

3. Once again agree 100%

4. Looks like you've made a wise decision.

5. Yes I can believe that Warn supplies grade 5s for their winch mounts. They're probably more than sufficient for the load, and why would they upgrade the hardware (cutting into their profit) if their engineers said that a grade five was fine? The answer is they wouldn't, and a five is probably plenty strong, and that is why they supply grade fives.

Reading through your post again I didn't realize how much I agreed with you, but I still do not think that any grade two fastener should have any place in an automobile.
 
[ QUOTE ]
All the ones I've ever sold were 120,000 psi (grade 8). Might not be specified, but they are made that way. I can't see where high strength wouldn't be required for the pin that locates the axle though

[/ QUOTE ]
So directions say Grade 5 but you still insisted earlier that Grade 8 or 120,000 psi bolts should be used.

Every spring centering pin that I have dealt with has been way softer than a grade 8 bolt. I have always put in the bolt tighted the nut and cut the remaining bolt off with a hacksaw. I would not want to tie into a Grade 8 with a hacksaw unless I had breakfast lunch and dinner with me.

The directions probably are written to cover ORDs a$$. All a centering pin really does is hold the spring pack together while the springs are not installed on the truck. They also probably do help with the location of the axle a very minor little bit. But the clamping force of the U bolts is what really holds the whole system together.

It seems like the real point here is that there are many people here that are saying that a softer bolt is fine. Including industry pros. Perhaps you don't fully understand how some of these systems work, not a bad thing. I don't know how everything works or goes together, so I ask questions and listen to what very knowledgable people have to say here in cyber space. You don't have to agree but at the same time don't go to other threads or forums and post little jabs at them.
You can do what ever you want, from what I can tell you are a hard one to please, no real problem with that it is just who you are. I am the same way in my profession.
/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
So directions say Grade 5 but you still insisted earlier that Grade 8 or 120,000 psi bolts should be used.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said that at any time. If I believed that, I wouldn't have grade fives in my front springs at this very moment.

In fact, they were supplied by Dr. Watson himself at ORD when I ordered my zero rates.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
You said it, not me.... /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom