Overheating starter

[bp71k5]

A couple of times now when the truck has been running and is pretty hot, the starter has stopped working. There's no click or any other noise at all when I turn the key. I wa able to clutch start it in moab when it happened once but it happened after I stopped for gas on the freeway a couple days later. In that case I was able to short the solenoid for a sec and that allowed it to start with the key again.

Any ideas what's up? Can starters overheat? It's only a couple years old.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Yes, heat can do that. Especially with headers. A heat shield is usually the answer, cheap and easy.

 

[gotblazers]

A couple of times now when the truck has been running and is pretty hot, the starter has stopped working. There's no click or any other noise at all when I turn the key. I wa able to clutch start it in moab when it happened once but it happened after I stopped for gas on the freeway a couple days later. In that case I was able to short the solenoid for a sec and that allowed it to start with the key again.

Any ideas what's up? Can starters overheat? It's only a couple years old.

yep, The duel exhaust that came with my truck used to overheat the starter my answer was new exhaust and new starter

 

[DieselWarrior]

Its called HEAT SOAK, its where the starter is so close to the exhaust. I had another K5 (damn gasser) that would leave me stranded until the starter cooled off. I put a heat shield "coat" on it, and didnt have any problems after that.

Heres the one I used, it was like an "aluminum jacker", goes together with velcro, easy install. Even though it was velcro, it never came loose or came off! I got mine from a local brick and mortar performance shop.
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/starter_heat_shield.php


A little wrenching and you can install a metal one:
http://www.thepartsbin.com/sitemap/chevy~starter_heat_shield~parts.html

Or, you can get some 15ga sheet at the hardware store, cut it down to size, put a little bend it in, drill two holes, and you saved a bundle!

Hope that helps, let us know...
Andrew

 

[diesel4me]

Painting the starter with aluminum paint helps some too--black is the worst color to paint it,it absorbs more heat,yet thats what 99% of them are painted with..aluminum paint reflects heat and also keeps rust at bay longer too...

The 400 small block I had in my 74 GMC always had starting troubles if you got the truck hot,then shut if off,and tried restarting it a few moments later,more than once it wouldnt even click,like the battery was dissconnected,till it cooled off some,and it got very annoying--a friend suggested painting it with aluminum paint and making a heat sheild--I painted it and it didn't do it again,so I didn't bother with the heat sheild..

 

[Greg72]

A million years ago I also remember reading about a F*rd starter relay fix for hot start issues.

Something about using the relay to pass full current to the starter and bypass the circuit that passes through the ignition key circuit (which causes voltage drop).

The details are fuzzy, I was DD'ing my dinosaur back then and the internet was mostly just smoke signals and ASCII porn.

 

[bp71k5]

Actually are we talking about shielding the starter motor or the solenoid?

 

[jms]

I'm starting to wonder whether there's a common theme on the issues with your truck - such as the t'case(s) spitting out gear oil (heat?), starter not happy (heat?)...

 

[nvrenuf]

Some shields cover both while some just the solenoid. Most, if not all, aftermarket shields cover both but OE shield shapes changed over the years so some do, some don't.

The Ford solenoid conversion that Greg mentioned usually fixes the problem. It can easily be done diy with over the counter parts. Google for kits offered by Moroso and the like via Jegs or Summit to see what you get and how you do it.

 

[wasted wages]

Is it the old school Delco dinosaur starter ?


if it is....here's your answer....

 

[bp71k5]

I'm starting to wonder whether there's a common theme on the issues with your truck - such as the t'case(s) spitting out gear oil (heat?), starter not happy (heat?)...

Yep, lots of things seem to go wrong when it's hot. You think something bigger is going on?

Is it the old school Delco [/IMG]

Yep, a rebuilt unit. It's happened exactly twice and both times were after a long stretch of driving. If I just need to keep it cool, I'd rather keep the ease of replacement by staying stock, unless the problem keeps getting worse.

 

[wasted wages]

I'd rather keep the ease of replacement by staying stock, unless the problem keeps getting worse.

I like these starters.....solves 90% of Chevy hot soak starter issues....
They draw a LOT LESS amps than the old Delcotron...cleaner install..lighter weight. mount in the stock location,,,can be clocked to clear headers etc...

plus they will whip over a 14:1 big block without a problem..

There really is no down side to them....

 

[jms]

Yep, lots of things seem to go wrong when it's hot. You think something bigger is going on?

I'm wondering whether addressing the heat issue itself might fix the downstream consequences. I seem to remember your motor needing 16psi of fuel pressure to run - that's on the high side for a TBI, right? Any chance it's not burning all that fuel in the cylinder, leading to residual burn in the exhaust, making the exhaust hotter than it should be, and together with exhaust routing close to the starter, and maybe close to the t'case on the passenger side, the heat in the exhaust is creating other issues... well, just a thought...

 

[lak2004]

I like these starters.....solves 90% of Chevy hot soak starter issues....
They draw a LOT LESS amps than the old Delcotron...cleaner install..lighter weight. mount in the stock location,,,can be clocked to clear headers etc...

plus they will whip over a 14:1 big block without a problem..

There really is no down side to them....

I agree, mini starters are the chit! And you could keep the old starter as a spare.

 

[bp71k5]

I'm wondering whether addressing the heat issue itself might fix the downstream consequences. I seem to remember your motor needing 16psi of fuel pressure to run - that's on the high side for a TBI, right?

Its a good thought although I'm unsure of how to accomplish it. Although I'm using TBI, the motor is not originally TBI. Its a 71 that's been bored over, decent flowing heads and larger than stock exhaust manifolds and all the TBI upgrades for more intake flow. I'm not surprised at 16psi and the computer seems ok with it. I may check it over and see if I missed anything that might cause excess heat. I wonder if there's a good temp estimate of what the exhaust should be at?

 

[mrk5]

Actually a lean fuel condition will cause a motor to run hot. What are your engine temps running? Also if your timing being advanced too far could cause the motor to run hot. Do you have headers? Or cast iron manifolds? Not sure what mean by larger exhaust manifolds. Did it seem better or worse in Moab?

 

[4X4HIGH]

Brian is running Corvette rams horn manifolds that are 2 1/2" diameter dumps.

 

[DieselWarrior]

Heat soak starter problems on Chevys is as common as grocery stores. It wouldnt be a bad idea to heat shield the crossover or Y on your pipe too, keep the tranny or xfer a bit cooler too.

That is all, carry on with Jeopardy "Id like to buy 'A Shot In The Dark' for $200 Alex"

.

 

[bigblock72]

Its a good thought although I'm unsure of how to accomplish it. Although I'm using TBI, the motor is not originally TBI. Its a 71 that's been bored over, decent flowing heads and larger than stock exhaust manifolds and all the TBI upgrades for more intake flow. I'm not surprised at 16psi and the computer seems ok with it. I may check it over and see if I missed anything that might cause excess heat. I wonder if there's a good temp estimate of what the exhaust should be at?

Exhaust temperature going down the highway is usually in the 600 degree range and go up to 1300 degrees under heavy load, WOT etc. Having the timing retarded (from ideal) will cause the exhaust temperature to go way up because late timing causes more of the fuel burn to occur in the exhaust port/exhaust manifold.

I haven't owned a GM car or truck with the old style starter that didn't have heat soak issues even stockers that still had exhaust manifolds. What happens is when the solenoid gets hot it sometimes will require 40-60 amps which is whole lot more than the stock wiring and ignition swith can provide.

The solutions?? I personally prefer to go with the newer style gear reduction/permanent magnet motor that is available from just about any parts store or even from flea bay. You may have to get shorter bolts though. Less than an hour install and 80-140 dollars for the starter and 10 bucks for the bolts from the dealer.
The second option is to go to a Ford solenoid which is a fairly easy install it just adds to the clutter under the hood. The solenoid installs on the firewall or inner fender; just get a short battery cable to go from the battery to the solenoid and another cable to go from the ferd solenoid to the starter mounted solenoid. Disconnect the purple wire from the starter and reroute purple wire to the "S" terminal on ferd solenoid. The last thing is to make a short jumper for the starter mounted solenoid that needs to jumper the battery cable (which will now only be hot when cranking) to the inside terminal where the purple wire used to go. It will probably take 1-2 hours and cost around 20-40 dollars depending on battery cables.

 

[bp71k5]

Scott has it right. The corvette manifolds are center dump and the passenger tube goes straight down past the starter and then under the oil pan and meets up with the other side into a single pipe going to the muffler. The solenoid is probably 3-4" away from the pipe. The transfer cases are more like 8" away, but it does get pretty hot under there even that far back.

I can also try advancing the base timing a tiny bit. I had tbi chips back it way off (closer to stock than the performance chips) to help with pinging a while back.