Parking brake w/ disc brake or Trans brake

[BoondocK5]

I keep reading all this different stuff about disc brake calipers w/E-brake capabilities. and hearing a lot of complaints against it. WHY?
I just don't remember there being a problem with their functionality.

When I was turning wrenches for money, back when, the eldorado's that had them seemed to work fine when adjusted correctly, I got the tool and always had good luck, I guess. If I couldn't get it to work right I replaced the caliper. Does the big ole 3/4-1ton rotor somehow make a difference?

 

[K5dreamer]

oh the nekked option, nice flourish with the ebrake handle

I have been working on this issue myself (see fraken axle threads) and from what ive seen it brakes down like this (no pun intended).

1. Driveline brake - either on the TC or driveshaft or pinion, effective, but expensive as all get out. requires alot of replacement parts and often a special Slip yoke eliminator to mount the rotor too. Also, if the TC goes into neutral, your kinda up ****s creek without a paddle as far as using the brake.

2. El Dorado calipers - work great on caddy's. but once mounted onto a 6000lbs rig, with oversize tires, simply dosnt have the clamping power that makes all of us feel safe. basically its enough to hold the truck on a level surface. but many have said on a steep incline, the parking brake part of these calipers still allows the truck to creep forward or backward.

3. Trans brake - lots of positive thoughts on this, and honestly the way i almost went. but some (including myself) had concerns with the solenoid failing, or vacuum leaking down over time. EDIT - I also plan on running a manual trans later, which means the trans brake is a no go.

4. Modern Drum In Hat disk brake setup - the route im going, and honestly, pretty strait forward if i had gotten the correct hubs. All thats required is a pair of adaptors to mate the disk brake backing plate to the axle flange. everything else literally bolts up. no machining necessary thus far. You just have to make sure the hubs you have (either SRW or DRW) are from a pre 1988 truck so the hub will fit through the big hole in the middle of the rotor, and mount flush to the rotor surface. The DIH system i got was off of a 2500 series GMC Sierra pickup. 2wd. Semi float rear axle. HUGE dual piston calipers, big rotors, and large parking brake shoes. If i can get it to work, it just REEKS of win.

 

[BoondocK5]

Good info right there. Thanks! I'm still considering which route to take, I really want to manufacture a custom twin caliper transfercase brake set up, then pawn it of on one of my unsuspecting custom 4x4 parts makers, to mass produce.

 

[BoondocK5]

So I'm to understand that the sheer vehicle weight thing with the trucks is what makes them not work so well?

 

[toomany]

3. Trans brake - lots of positive thoughts on this, and honestly the way i almost went. but some (including myself) had concerns with the solenoid failing, or vacuum leaking down over time. EDIT - I also plan on running a manual trans later, which means the trans brake is a no go.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a trans brake only work when the motor is running? Trans brake works by locking the trans into a forward gear and reverse at the same time. I know it can create alot of heat inside the trans, but that could be from holding the converter at/near it's stall speed. As far as using it as an emergency brake...forget about it. I can only imagine what would break if you tried to engage it (if it even would) at speed.

The better option is a cable operated system. Either on the TC or at the wheels. A line loc would be my second choice, but those can bleed off over time. Has anyone considered a manual valve for a line loc? Same concept except you wouldn't have to worry about the solenoid failing. A screw type valve or ball valve could work.

 

[BoondocK5]

I've been thinking about that very option.

 

[4X4HIGH]

I have the caddy Eldorado calipers on my rig and once you get the cable throw worked out they work flawlessly. I have weighed my rig and it weighs 6020 lbs and those Eldo calipers hold the truck no problem and even on a steep incline.

 

[muddybuddy]

ive got the caddy calipers with the levers, but dont have the ebrake hooked up. i usually carry a wheel chuck with me if im gonna park on hills. sometimes its annoying, but driving a truck on 42's around everywhere in a city-like setting is kind of annoying as well haha. maybe 1 day ill hook them up

are u looking for a parking brake to pass inspection? i think in some states driveline ebrakes wont pass inspection because they are not on the axle. but then again, the inspector would have to looking for it to really know its not on the axle.

if you are looking for something to use as an actual ebrake, then i duno. all i know is hitting the ebrake in a lifted truck would be the last thing i would ever do in an emergency situation, and would definitely cause loss of control and probably a huge accident. i upgraded the brakes to be able to handle those kind of situations

 

[rufusbooth]

4. Modern Drum In Hat disk brake setup - the route im going, and honestly, pretty strait forward if i had gotten the correct hubs. All thats required is a pair of adaptors to mate the disk brake backing plate to the axle flange. everything else literally bolts up. no machining necessary thus far. You just have to make sure the hubs you have (either SRW or DRW) are from a pre 1988 truck so the hub will fit through the big hole in the middle of the rotor, and mount flush to the rotor surface. The DIH system i got was off of a 2500 series GMC Sierra pickup. 2wd. Semi float rear axle. HUGE dual piston calipers, big rotors, and large parking brake shoes. If i can get it to work, it just REEKS of win.

All great info here. But, I would add to this why do people want to go disk on back in the first place? Mud and drum brakes do not get along at all. Once you get a drum brake packed up with mud you are pulling everything apart on the trail to clean things out so the tire will spin again.

So, the choice really is based on what you want to do with the truck? If you are running your truck through the mud a lot, even the drum in hat setup will cause you grief. You should choose a different "drumless" solution.

If your truck rarely sees mud, the stock drums or a drum in hat system will work well. My truck rarly sees mud and I am just going to use the stock drum brakes. The e-brake works well in this kind of system.

Cheers,


Rufus

 

[Cornfield creations]

Well my blazer never sees mud, but I chose to go with discs just for shear efficiency. The huge drums on the 14bff adds more rotating mass that has to get spinning when taking off from the stop sign. I know 35"+ tires are not small and they are heavy, but removing any excessive weight from the axle end helps. My blazer brakes tons better and I don't have to pull axles to check my drums, I just peak over my tire.

The e-brake issue will always remain, unless someone comes up with a cost effective/ working solution. The newer style truck setup with the hat style drum sounds good, but the cost of those brakes would make me stay with the factory drums. Plus they are riddled with problems with the calipers on all the rear disc setups on the gm trucks. They went back to drums on most in '05.

So as of now, I'm running without and parking on flatter ground until someone makes or comes up with a good solution.

 

[ChefBear]

Had

I did the TC disk option from High Angle Driveline and love it. Works like a friggin champ!

 

[chulisohombre]

i have the cady ebrake.it works alright,but i dont think i have a long enough lever to move the calper tight enough to lock it in.i am still workin on gettin it to work to comletely lock it in.i was told the original lever in the cady was a ratcheting one so it would always get tight enough.i need to maybe find one of those and adapt it.

 

[Wasatch K5]

I have the caddy Eldorado calipers on my rig and once you get the cable throw worked out they work flawlessly. I have weighed my rig and it weighs 6020 lbs and those Eldo calipers hold the truck no problem and even on a steep incline.

Could you elaborate a bit on "getting the cable throw worked out"?

My impression from other off road forums is one needs some mechanical advantage to get the Eldo e-brakes to work properly.

 

[ezoliver]

I did the TC disk option from High Angle Driveline and love it. Works like a friggin champ!

I second this vote.... I did plenty of research on this very subject and opted to go with HAD t-case brake on my Atlas II.

I am sure I will love it when I get my truck rolling...

I think an e-brake should work well and be reliable, period.

 

[jms]

a few tidbits...

Disk brakes are more resistant to fade that drums - my personal experience on Moab trails, in two different vehicles where I did a conversion.

If I had the time, I would get the Seville cable brackets to put on the Eldorado calipers (see the setup of 4x4High), and ditch my homemade bracket setup - which has worked reasonably well over the last 7 years.

The Eldo calipers are use-them-or-loose-them - you have to use the e-brake very regularly, or the service brake will be affected because of the adjustment mechanism of the caliper. That said, adjustment of the caliper is critical, and it can give very strange results if left/right side are out of sync. My homemade solution to that problem was to install a pulley system that synchronizes cable pull/lever movement between left and right no matter what the adjustment stage of each caliper.

A simple trick that seems to work for me with regard to e-brake holding power is to step hard on the service brake and hold it when you set the e-brake - that uses the force of the hydraulic system, and not the mechanical setup, to get the pistons close to the rotor.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I've known several people that have tried El Dorado calipers, hated them and ditched them. As others have mentioned, sounds like a longer bracket and constant adjustment might be the way to get them to work ok.

1. Driveline brake - either on the TC or driveshaft or pinion, effective, but expensive as all get out. requires alot of replacement parts and often a special Slip yoke eliminator to mount the rotor too. Also, if the TC goes into neutral, your kinda up ****s creek without a paddle as far as using the brake.

The t-case mounted brake will work just as well regardless of which gear the trans or t-case is in. The caliper is mounted to the t-case, it doesn't matter if it's in neutral it will hold the truck.

Driveline brakes are VERY effective because they are upstream of the differential gearing, hence even though the rotor/caliper is smaller it's 4.xx (or whatever the diff gearing is) times more effective than a wheel brake.



I run a line lock both for front dig capability and as a parking brake. It's a cheap (Jegs brand I think) electric lock, contrary to what some people say I've left it on (accidentally) for a week or so at a time and it had not bled down at all.


This topic has been beaten to death. No, electric locks won't work if you lose hydraulic pressure somehow and they won't work if you lose power/ground (do a good job of wiring and it's not an issue, how many electrical things do many of us still trust after 30+ years of service?).


Mechanical e-brakes won't work if a cable snaps, gear mechanism strips or if the cable brackets get bent. I've seen all three, nothing is guaranteed reliable.


To me, the bottom line is that it's a secondary brake and not really to be trusted. If there's a chance your truck can roll into children or a bus full of nuns, turn the wheels when you park so it can't.



If you need a backup brake in case your hydraulic brakes suddenly fail (rare, but it's happened) then a mechanical brake system is what you need.

If you're looking for a parking brake, line locks are a very easy, cheap, effective, maintenance free option.

 

[folkenheath]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a trans brake only work when the motor is running? Trans brake works by locking the trans into a forward gear and reverse at the same time. I know it can create alot of heat inside the trans, but that could be from holding the converter at/near it's stall speed. As far as using it as an emergency brake...forget about it. I can only imagine what would break if you tried to engage it (if it even would) at speed.

You are correct, a trans brake only works with the transmission pump supplying the pressure to hold the trans in first/reverse at the same time, and that pump is driven by the engine. When you release the t-brake, it releases reverse(very quickly) and forward you go. Most trans shops don't recommend using a transbrake on a street driven vehicle. Not just because of the possible drivetrain breakage, but more because of the likely accident that would happen if it was engaged (and it could) while driving.

1. Driveline brake - either on the TC or driveshaft or pinion, effective, but expensive as all get out. requires alot of replacement parts and often a special Slip yoke eliminator to mount the rotor too. Also, if the TC goes into neutral, your kinda up ****s creek without a paddle as far as using the brake.

Since the brake is behind the transfer case, it doesn't matter if its in gear or not, it will still lock up the driveshaft, and it also has the torque multiplication of your differential gear ratio. However, if the rear ring and pinion or diff/axle fails, then it may not work anymore, depending on what broke.