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Performance upgrades for my TBI?

TheRealJimmy

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Not sure where to ask this question but here goes. I have a 1990 GMV Jimmy / K5 that has the stock TBI on it. Last winter I had the engine replaced with a new GM 1996-up vortec crate motor (260HP). Had to also buy the GM Proformance TBI to vortec intake and added 2 1/2" true dual exhaust. Still running the stock transmission and gears, but did add a set of 33" tires to it. Trucks runs and drives pretty good on highway but is a dog from take off.

Should I have upgraded the TBI and factory fuel pump?
 
What’s your fuel pressure?

Chances are the pump is a non issue


It might be worth some time to dialogue and see if the new motor and cam combination is working correctly with your current prom chip.

After that since you were using the factory gear, set your best possibility to increase performance with the 33 inch Tires would be likely a gear change, especially if you have 308s
 
Not sure where to ask this question but here goes. I have a 1990 GMV Jimmy / K5 that has the stock TBI on it. Last winter I had the engine replaced with a new GM 1996-up vortec crate motor (260HP). Had to also buy the GM Proformance TBI to vortec intake and added 2 1/2" true dual exhaust. Still running the stock transmission and gears, but did add a set of 33" tires to it. Trucks runs and drives pretty good on highway but is a dog from take off.

Should I have upgraded the TBI and factory fuel pump?
So if everything else was running perfect, adding the 33" tires makes it a dog.
As Mark said you are better off changing gears to bring it back to the ratio it was.
Now that doesn't mean you can't get more out of that engine by doing something with your TBI tuning.
Up till recently it was very hard to do that, but now apparently there's a better solution, I will try and find it but @dyeager535 might chime in before I found it, he was the one that posted it.
 
What’s your fuel pressure?

Chances are the pump is a non issue


It might be worth some time to dialogue and see if the new motor and cam combination is working correctly with your current prom chip.

After that since you were using the factory gear, set your best possibility to increase performance with the 33 inch Tires would be likely a gear change, especially if you have 308s
Not sure of fuel pressure. Don't have a pressure gauge on it
 
So if everything else was running perfect, adding the 33" tires makes it a dog.
As Mark said you are better off changing gears to bring it back to the ratio it was.
Now that doesn't mean you can't get more out of that engine by doing something with your TBI tuning.
Up till recently it was very hard to do that, but now apparently there's a better solution, I will try and find it but @dyeager535 might chime in before I found it, he was the one that posted it.
The vortec motor has 50hp then the stock 350 did. So I wasn't sure it I needed to do anything to the factory TBI?
 
The vortec motor has 50hp then the stock 350 did. So I wasn't sure it I needed to do anything to the factory TBI?
The vortec is not only 50 more hp but it's smoother and has a different range of rpm so having the TBI match the potential will be worth it.
The system I mentioned replaces the chip with an ecm that can be updated directly, not cheap but cheap enough that it's worth it in my opinion.
If I didn't have couple of complete vortec engines and only had a long block, I would go with it.
I still might on my boat engine if I can figure out the intake situation
 
The vortec motor has 50hp then the stock 350 did. So I wasn't sure it I needed to do anything to the factory TBI?
Howell still burns chips for these for a few hundred bucks. You may gain another 15 by doing so

The bulk of the rest of the upgrades like exhaust and compression are already doing work

What’s your axle ratio?
 
Howell still burns chips for these for a few hundred bucks. You may gain another 15 by doing so

The bulk of the rest of the upgrades like exhaust and compression are already doing work

What’s your axle ratio?
not sure? Whatever came stock in a 1990 GMC Jimmy high sierra I guess. Does this label help?

tag1.jpg

tag3.jpg
 
“GT4” should be a 3.73 ratio and was the highest numerical gear for a K5 in ‘90.

Keep in mind that the 260 HP rating on that Vortec motor was intended for the injection that it came with not the choked up TBI system - actual results will be less power.
 
You're in luck. GT4 is 3.73. Not ideal with 33" tires, but least sucky ratio that was available. Of course, RPO codes don't hold a lot of weight on a 35-year old vehicle, but if things were swapped, it's unlikely they went with higher gears. You can always figure it out by counting revolutions.

1748545985932.png
 
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I had the engine replaced with a new GM 1996-up vortec crate motor (260HP). Should I have upgraded the TBI and factory fuel pump?
The short answer is maybe. The later Vortecs ran on about 60psi, but given you have the TBI throttle and injectors, the regular TBI ~12psi is appropriate. The fact it runs OK on the highway suggests you're getting enough fuel, but it's hard to know without some numbers. The extra HP rating of the engine won't require more fuel than the system can deliver, but it would probably benefit from some tuning. The TBI ECM doesn't self-adapt very far for things like different cams and heads, which is basically what you've done. You also don't really know how good your old fuel pump was to begin with.

Search here for TBI mods and you'll find a couple of simple things like a spacer and the salad bowl, but it's not going to do a ton. Then you would need to weigh the options of a cam swap, headers, etc. However, you should start by checking the fuel pressure (at idle and under load), the ignition timing and basic things like that before swapping parts. Having an ALDL cable to log your fuel trims and O2 numbers would also be very helpful.

https://harristuning.com/Tbi/recommended-350-tbi-mods/
https://harristuning.com/Tbi/ultimate-tbi-mods/

From his site:
a chip will give you the most bang for the buck of any mod you can do to the vehicle.
 
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3.73 gear on 33s should work pretty well, especially at sea level
Yep, even on my heavy suburban 3.73 with 33" worked well for 5 years but when I destroyed the gov-bomb, I put a 14bff with 4.10 and it came alive.
I didn't know what I was missing until I got it
 
Embedded Lockers (EBL) is what was being mentioned. Outside of Howell, probably about the only viable option at this point.

TBI cannot adjust fueling when components are changed (like cam, exhaust, intake, compression, heads, etc) effectively when you are on the throttle, so it's almost guaranteed it isn't getting enough fuel under load now. More power means more fuel. All TBI "knows" is that under W load, with X engine, with Y gears, that the injectors should provide Z fuel when the throttle is depressed. At cruise the O2 sensor is used to adjust fuel trim, and because engine load is so low at cruise, normally the O2 can adjust fueling close enough to run "fine" there.

The timing curve needs are going to be significantly different as well. Some reading here...slightly different setup, but you may get the jist of it: https://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-I...hp?930-Tuned-L31-Vortec-with-TBI-Heads-Intake

FWIW if you run an adjustable fuel pressure regulator you can TRY to bump pressure up and see if that helps, but it's not a fix, that is a bandaid. You can also try and shim the stock regulator spring, but you can quickly bottom that out and crack the housing if not paying attention. You'd need at least a fuel pressure test kit to see if your pump will even go higher. The TBI pumps are considered good by GM if they will make at least 9PSI, at best those pumps seem to max out at 14PSI. It's not really much.

It *is* possible to destroy the engine in the current state. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, and I'm not trying to start something, but running lean under load is how you destroy engines. The knock sensor will help prevent that as best it can, but if you can *hear* knock, it's bad. The knock sensor will start retarding timing to try and stop knock before its even audible to you, so if you can hear any pinging, it's beyond what the ECM can compensate for by pulling timing. But it will pull timing, and it will absolutely cause a "sag" seen as a significant loss of power. I will state that thing is not and will not run right without tuning the ECM (really the PROM).

At this stage we are so far into the LS-swap craze almost everyone has forgotten about tuning TBI. You are either going to have to get super involved in it, and have the drive to complete it, or farm the work out to someone else like Howell.

You can probably google "max HP from TBI" or a variation of that to see if 260HP is supportable with the stock TBI housing, I expect it probably is, but it's another variable that needs investigated.

FWIW I'm running TPI/L31 longblock (factory injection, PROM tuned by myself, and headers), 33's with 3.42 gears and a manual trans, and it has no issues with accelerating. Yes, TPI is a different induction system, but same era, same limitations for the most part. I had to do a LOT of tuning to get the fueling and timing right. It needed significantly more fuel than the original TPI engine (L98) it came off of with the L31 (edit: and timing was all wrong too, as it will be in your case, since the Vortec combustion chambers are so different than most all prior to that design). The L98 (250hp) was a pretty formidable engine for that time period, especially compared to TBI (210hp), and the original tune to run a TPI 350 was nowhere close, even in fueling.
 
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