Pinion Seal help... Please

[78Suburban]

ok, I was hijacking another thread, but I decided to start a new one. I believe I posted up on ck5 about this same issue in the past and did not get a definitive answer. Can anyone outline how to change a pinion seal in super noob terms? Somebody gave me this link: http://cache1.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/14b.pdf
it tells about the pinion seal on the third page, but they are using some kinda odd flange remover tool and the whole thing is written in MECHANESE lingo that dingbatts like me can't understand. I'm just really having a hard time wrapping my mind around how to properly change my 14ff pinion seal. I guess that's what's causing all of this leakage:

thanks,
James

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

You will need a torque wrench that read in inch pounds plus a new seal, pinion nut and crush sleeve. It is quite a bit easier with impact tools. Remember, keep everything REALLY clean. Seriously.

1. Drain the diff, remove driveshaft and the bolts attatching the pinion support. Remove the pinion support (it can be a tight fit, be careful not to damage it while pulling it out). BE CAREFUL not to damage or lose the pinion shims at this stage. The pinion shims are between the pinion support and the housing (where you would think a gasket would be).

2. Put the yoke in a vise allowing the rest of the assembly to hang below (you can have a buddy hold the yoke in his hands and use an impact gun if you don't have a vise that works). Remove the pinion nut (be careful not to allow the rest of the assembly to fall to the floor) and then put a punch into the notch in the end of the pinion and lightly tap the yoke off of the assembly. Catch the assembly with one hand on the housing and one on the pinion (to make sure it doesn't fall through). Tap the pinion through the housing (using the punch again, never hit the pinion with a hammer directly). Remove the crush sleeve and throw it away.

3. At this point I would use a prybar of some kind and pry the old seal out of there and replace it with the new one.

4. Put the shims and chrush sleeve exactly as they were back onto the pinion and slide it back into the pinion support. Slide the yoke back on start the new pinion nut. Tighten down the pinion nut until there is no play (in and out) in the yoke. Be careful not to overtighten the nut. Once there is no in and out play, further tightening of the pinion nut will begin crushing the crush sleeve. You will be able to feel some resistance while turning the pinion. Make sure you check this often with the inch pound torque wrench (you are measuring how much resistance the bearings are making) and stop when you are within spec (I cannot recall what that spec is). The rest is reverse of removal.

 

[78Suburban]

I'm such a noob

I'm frightened aunty emm, I'm frightened ....wonder how much a shop would charge to do that?
thanks,
James

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

If you took out the pinion support and brought it to them? I would think $75 maybe? And its really not as complicated or hard as it seems.

 

[78Suburban]

crush sleeve

so is it absolutely necessary to remove/replace the crush sleeve, or can it be worked around?
thanks,
James

 

[dyeager535]

I thought crush sleeve torque was something like 300ft lbs. I don't see anyone nearing enough pressure to crush it past where it is now if so.

However, I've never seen it stated if that number is what it takes to move the crush sleeve initially, and after it starts to crush it goes easier, or not.

 

[Cricket]

should cost 75.00 to replace the rear pinion seal if you drive it down to the shop. Call for a quote 1st.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

Just to touch on what 38377K5 said. He explained it pretty well except the shims. The only shims you have to worry about are inbetween the pinion housing and the axle housing. You are "supposed" to use a new crush sleeve and reset the bearing pre-load if you remove the pinion nut, but it can be done with all the work. I am telling you it's not the "correct" way, but if you ae careful it should work. You can mark the pinion or count the threads before you remove the pinion nut. Remove the yoke replace the seal, and put the yoke back on. Put the pinion nut back on (with red loc-tite) to the exact same spot it was when you removed it. It's not the correct way, but it works if you are careful. Or just take it to a shop, but what fun is that

 

[GotBoykins]

Have you checked the axle vent to make sure it is free of obstructions? That may be the problem.

 

[78Suburban]

Have you checked the axle vent to make sure it is free of obstructions? That may be the problem.

If the vent is plugged, does that mean that the seal is shot for sure, or is it possible that I could unplug it and not have any more leaking?

As far a shop goes, I would not have a problem saving up $75 to have it fixed, IF I knew it was going to be fixed correctly.. BUT, unfortunately.... I don't know any mechanics around here that aren't Inbred. If I knew somewhere that would do it right, and reset the preload... I would feel better about paying them. But I haven't found anybody I really trust yet. Anytime I have taken something in to a mechanic around here, I was always dis-satisfied at the shortcuts and hacking they did .... I believe I would trust Classic City Offroad in Athens to do it, but they are a 150 or 200 mile drive.

I'm thinking about starting to save for the 4.56 regear, and just keep the fluid topped off for the time being. Then when I get about $850 saved up, I'll go get some 4.56's, new bearings, and a nice PINION SEAL all installed at classic city...
Sorry for the rambling,
James

 

[stallion85]

I changed mine out tiwce and never measured the pre load........hasn't given me any problems. I do recommend changing the pinion nut though. I did however use a big MOTHA FN impact wrench to get that bad boy tightened though. I have probably 250 miles with it this way and no noise or leaks

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Just to touch on what 38377K5 said. He explained it pretty well except the shims. The only shims you have to worry about are inbetween the pinion housing and the axle housing. You are "supposed" to use a new crush sleeve and reset the bearing pre-load if you remove the pinion nut, but it can be done with all the work. I am telling you it's not the "correct" way, but if you ae careful it should work. You can mark the pinion or count the threads before you remove the pinion nut. Remove the yoke replace the seal, and put the yoke back on. Put the pinion nut back on (with red loc-tite) to the exact same spot it was when you removed it. It's not the correct way, but it works if you are careful. Or just take it to a shop, but what fun is that

Oh man, I can't believe I forgot that the pinion shims are between the housing and the removeable pinion on a FF 14 bolt (I will edit my previous post in case someone searches and finds this). What that means is there is no gasket between the two, the thin metal shims that are there are the pinion depth shims. If you got the pinion bearing preload wrong (i.e. by doing it without an inch pound torque wrench), the bearings would either overheat and seize very soon (i.e. pinion bearing preload too tight) or they would die a slower death (much more likely, pinion bearing preload too loose). Again, I am not saying that you can't set it back up correctly without the right tools (the spec for pinion bearing preload is actually pretty wide) but I have seen a few failed rear ends because they heard someone's friend "just threw it back together" and "it totally worked fine for him".

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I thought crush sleeve torque was something like 300ft lbs. I don't see anyone nearing enough pressure to crush it past where it is now if so.

However, I've never seen it stated if that number is what it takes to move the crush sleeve initially, and after it starts to crush it goes easier, or not.

It takes a lot to get the crush sleeve to begin to crush (more like 400 ft.lbs IMO) but once it starts it is much easier.

 

[78Suburban]

I just really wish I knew someone I trusted to fix the seal. That seems like a pretty intimidating procedure, especially just from reading about it and not having seen it done in person.. Does anyone have any suggestions of a reliable shop around the Columbus, GA area?
I really wish I had the cajonies to change in myself, as it would be a valuable learning experience, but without somebody knowledgeable to supervise, I don't think I will be diving into my rearend.
Thanks
James

 

[GotBoykins]

If the vent is plugged, does that mean that the seal is shot for sure, or is it possible that I could unplug it and not have any more leaking?

You could check to see if its plugged, it may stop leaking completely. It depends on how long its been leaking. If you just noticed fluid showing, then the seal may be ok.