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Please trouble shoot my wiring diagram

The Butcher

The Butcher

1/2 ton status
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Texas. In a van, down by the river!
I'm planning on cleaning up the aftermarket wiring mess I made under my hood 10 years ago when I hastily installed my front and rear lights. I've been piecing together stuff of Amazon for parts, but wanted to get some input on the following from those of you who know:
  1. On the attached diagram, do I need fuses between the switches and "hot" source? Since I want to be able to turn the lights on without the key on, I planned on just running straight from the battery to the switches (or the fuses if needed).
  2. I was planning on using 6AWG wire for the power to the 100A circuit breaker and then to the fuse block. Is that sufficient? Overkill?
  3. I was planning on using 12AWG wire for all of the other connections to/from the relays. Is that sufficient? Overkill?
  4. Are my fuse amp ratings sufficient for the lights I'm running? The 8" are 130w halogen, the 5" round are 55w halogen, and the back ups are 55w halogens.
Here are the parts I'm looking at:

Breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_20?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A6AY1HFZHO49U

Fuse block:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_21?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Relays:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...title_dp_18?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1L7F5DL4H71TK

Switches:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_17?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ACKFGXOOEC78X

I haven't set my mind on those switches, but I like the fact that are all on one panel, and I have USB charging capability on it. I'd likely find a way to mount this on the front of my Tuff security console.

Thanks for any help you guys can give.
 

Attachments

  • Power Distribution Flow Chart- Rev2.pdf
    19 KB · Views: 14
I ran mine with #4 welding wire (from tractor supply) with both + and - going direct to the battery. Dont just go to a "frame ground" for a subpanel, run it back to the battery, with as big a wire as is reasonable to get. I didnt run a main breaker, probably should have.

You dont "need" fuses from the positive block in the cab to the switches if all you are doing is flipping relays. If you want them, only need like 1A fuses in there. For short protection, you could run a single 10A fuse upstream from the battery to the distribution block. The wires that run from the switches to the relays are just for triggering and can be as small a wire as you want. I end up with #16 or #18 a lot because its easy to buy different colored wire in those sizes at the autoparts store, but its overkill.

Fuse sizes look good

I like that switch panel... for the parts mostly. I might buy one just to tear apart.
 
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Thanks for the info guys. @Hoss7979 I don't think I'll need the 12 fuse, but room for expansion for a few dollars more makes sense. @mechted I like the idea of running a single 10 amp to a distribution block for the switches. Might solve that short issue. I was concerned about that since it will be going through the firewall. I'll have a rubber grommet in place though, so chafing shouldn't be an issue. I'm thinking #4 wire might be a bit much for this, but I'll see what I can find. I was trying to get it all through Amazon for convenience. They've got good marine/auto stranded wire on there, and at reasonable prices from what I can tell.

I like the switch panel too, and thought it was a good thing to rob parts from if needed. I like that it is all in one place though.
 
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hobart-4-flexible-welding-cable?cm_vc=-10005
Price wise its not that great, can get something similar on amazon for way less.

Bigger wire = less voltage drop over run. Who cares if its overkill. I rewired most of my engine compartment when I did an engine swap. Used #2 for the starter and main engine block grounds. #4 for the fuse block in the engine bay, alternator charging line, main frame ground. Copper lugs crimped on, solder the whole thing, heatshrink in red or black. Call it good.

Used these for battery hook up. Allows you to stack leads on the battery terminals neatly. And still only 1 bolt to pull the whole thing.
https://www.amazon.com/Pico-0810PT-...429&sr=8-3&keywords=military+battery+terminal
 
Parts started arriving in the mail yesterday. The switch panel seems to be pretty decent quality. I'm a little confused on the wiring. They have jumped everything together, but I seem to have two positive and two negative. I know the empty spade on each switch will be for the wire I run to the relay to signal the lights to turn on (pin 86). I'd like to be able to turn my lights on without the truck having to be on (i.e., not going to wire it to an acc on). Do I just connect these two power wires together (red and yellow) and go straight the battery positive and do the same for the grounds (black and blue, connecting to the ground on the battery obviously)? Would that end up illuminating the light on each rocker switch all the time, or just when you flip the switch on?

The red wire is noticeably larger diameter than the others, so I assume that is the main power in (straight to the battery). Is the blue the "signal" wire that would go to an acc on connection if I wanted to wire it so that they would only come on when the truck is on? This panel has a volt meter and USB charging port, and since this truck sits for several days on end I wonder if that would cause much discharge on my battery? I think there may already be an issue with the alarm draining the battery since it killed two Red Top batteries in the course of 3 years when it was running. I might just yank that alarm out to see if that solves the problem.

IMG_5504.JPG

IMG_5505.JPG

IMG_5506 2.JPG
 
The diagram shows Yellow is ground for the backlights. Not Blue.
I think if you ganged Red and Blue to +12V and Black and Yellow to ground the panel lights and voltmeter would be on all the time. If you dont want that, what about rewiring one of the switches to act as a master for the panel? IE: Switch the Red wire. I know you can buy different covers for these switches. So you could get one labeled "Master On" to replace whichever.
It looks like Black and Yellow both go to ground (doesnt matter where exactly)
I would wire Blue to the dash lamps as it says (there is a source on the fuse block) so that the switch backlights only come on with the dash on. It looks like there is a separate LED for when each switch is turned on? Have to play with it to see.

Also: If you are killing batteries through a drain somewhere either find it and fix it (can be a huge pain) or get a battery tender. Can be a cheap fix for a truck that sits a lot. I use one on my Blazer. Usually plug it in like 1 or 2 days out of a 2 week window. Battery is still good 4 years later.
 
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mechted said:
The diagram shows Yellow is ground for the backlights. Not Blue.
I think if you ganged Red and Blue to +12V and Black and Yellow to ground the panel lights and voltmeter would be on all the time. If you dont want that, what about rewiring one of the switches to act as a master for the panel? IE: Switch the Red wire. I know you can buy different covers for these switches. So you could get one labeled "Master On" to replace whichever.
It looks like Black and Yellow both go to ground (doesnt matter where exactly)
I would wire Blue to the dash lamps as it says (there is a source on the fuse block) so that the switch backlights only come on with the dash on. It looks like there is a separate LED for when each switch is turned on? Have to play with it to see.

Also: If you are killing batteries through a drain somewhere either find it and fix it (can be a huge pain) or get a battery tender. Can be a cheap fix for a truck that sits a lot. I use one on my Blazer. Usually plug it in like 1 or 2 days out of a 2 week window. Battery is still good 4 years later.
Click to expand...


You're correct, blue is positive. I paired those together incorrectly when typing. Thanks for the catch!

I like the idea of converting one of the switches to "Master On". I don't want the panel lights and voltmeter on all the time. If I wire the blue to the fuse block source that is only powered when the dash is on, the red power will still be feeding the voltmeter and USB outlet all the time, won't it? So, the rocker lights won't be on, but the voltmeter and charging source will still be hot. I guess that's where the "Master On" conversion seems appealing, so I can switch those off if I want to. I understand the concept, but can't seem to get my head around how to change the wires around to achieve that. One switch (currently the one labeled driving lights) has the open ended leads on it. Would I just get rid of the red jump from that switch to the next one (currently labeled zombie lights), and attach the jump to the open spade currently on the driving lights over to the zombie lights? The open ended red power lead going into the driving lights switch would go to battery +, with no jump. The driving light switch then becomes the one that powers on the rest of the switches?

I have toyed with the Battery tender idea, but hooking up to the battery each time is PITA. We do that with the ranch truck which isn't that big of a deal since it only gets used every few months, but I would probably not have this sit more than a week at a time. I'm impressed you've gotten 4 years out of your battery with that. The ones on the ranch truck crap out after 3 even with the battery tender. It has a short somewhere too that drains it, but no idea where!
 
For the wiring: I think you got it.
Remove Red wire from "Driving Lights", cut off the long input feed wire, and move the short jumper that is left to #3 terminal on "Driving lights"
Make a new feed wire from your +12V fused source to the #2 terminal on "driving lights"
"Driving Lights" switch is now your master +12V switch for the whole panel.
Yellow/Black/Blue wiring should be unaffected.

Battery Tender:
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tend...qid=1475260045&sr=1-1&keywords=battery+tender
cut off the clamps, change to ring terminals, mount to battery. Use the quick disconnect built into the harness. Easy.

Yeah. If you are killing your battery charge in a week you need to find that and fix it.
 
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mechted said:
For the wiring: I think you got it.
Remove Red wire from "Driving Lights", cut off the long input feed wire, and move the short jumper that is left to #3 terminal on "Driving lights"
Make a new feed wire from your +12V fused source to the #2 terminal on "driving lights"
"Driving Lights" switch is now your master +12V switch for the whole panel.
Yellow/Black/Blue wiring should be unaffected.

Battery Tender:
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tend...qid=1475260045&sr=1-1&keywords=battery+tender
cut off the clamps, change to ring terminals, mount to battery. Use the quick disconnect built into the harness. Easy.

Yeah. If you are killing your battery charge in a week you need to find that and fix it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Since the switches aren't really carrying a substantial amount of the load when the switches are on (the relays should handle that) I shouldn't be too concerned about the draw from the other switches, voltmeter, and USB charger burning up the Driving Light switch, should I? I was going to put a 10amp inline fuse into #2 on the driving lights. The highest draw possible on the USB is 2.5amp, and then I wouldn't think the voltmeter and subsequent switches wouldn't be much draw at all even if they were all powered on. Is that thinking correct? Well under 10amp, and I would think those switches could handle that. I'll see if I can find any details on the max load the switches can handle.
 
the "ON" LEDs are probably not part of the load path. Should be wired as a separate circuit so that they will see the voltage difference between the output terminal #3 and ground terminal #8, not the amperage of the load (terminal #2 to terminal #3) The amazon link says the switches are rated for 20A. With EVERYTHING on and the charger pumping everything it can, I bet you are looking at 3.5A or so of load. Should be fine.
 
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Interesting. I wondered how the "on" light knew to come on. So, the "on" light is wired to sense when the load actually engages on terminal 3? The blue wire going to terminal 6 also lets it know when there is a charge coming in and similarly the "on" light comes on (ie, you have turned on your headlights and the dash lights light up)? I realize that might be a question that can't answered without looking at the internals of the switch to see how it is wired, but wanted to confirm if I was picking up what you were putting down.
 
Yep. At least I think so. I havent actually had these particular switches apart so I cant say for sure though.
The backlight should be terminal #6 to terminal #7 voltage difference.
 
You can also use circuit breakers in the fusebox so if it "blows" a fuse it will just come right back on after a few seconds... I have them right off of my battery.
 
rayfin said:
You can also use circuit breakers in the fusebox so if it "blows" a fuse it will just come right back on after a few seconds... I have them right off of my battery.
Click to expand...
Ater the starter my whole truck only pills about 18 AMPS...I measured it.
 
I think I have it mapped out. I got to wondering how much I would have into this stuff $-wise, but it isn't too bad. About $180 plus whatever the wire ends up costing, but I'll have extra space for expansion if I need to add things later. One spare switch, and 5 extra relays already wired in. Haven't decided for sure on the enclosure I have listed, but when I get some time I'll see if something that size will fit somewhere under the hood without being in the way too much. Here is the updated diagram including the wiring of the switch panel to repurpose the "driving lights" switch into a "Master On" switch for the whole switch panel. I resized this so it all fits on one pdf page, but it made the text kind of small. It's easy to see if you enlarge it on your computer and only look at sections of it. Thanks for everyone's help on this. If anyone has additional suggestions or notices something off with the way I have it laid out feel free to chime in.
 

Attachments

  • Power Distribution Flow Chart- Rev4.pdf
    48.4 KB · Views: 14
For some reason I can't open the PDF. However, I have a little advice. Make sure when you fuse wires, you don't use too high of a fuse for the wire gauge. A fuse's first job is to save the wire for fire safety. It blows before the wire melts/shorts/burns. There is nothing wrong with a huge wire and a tiny fuse either :). Use a chart like the one below for appropriate wire size and max amp ratings for your situation. Remember to not exceed the wire's capacity with a fuse! Always go lower. It does no good if a wire can't handle what a fuse will let pass. When the wires split into smaller wires for different circuits, they should have individual fuses for those wires.

 
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Total wire length for that stretch of wire. So if you have say a 4awg wire to a block, and a 10awg coming off that, you don't want to exceed 14' of 10awg if you have a max 20a circuit. Additionally, you want to be sure your 4awg is less than 50' so it can support that current all the way to the end of that 10awg wire. To make it more fun, you also need to account for the other wires coming off the block too, and their load/length. So if the total possible current draw from the block back is 70a, you would make sure your 4awg doesn't exceed 16'. If it's only 6' to the block, you can get away with an 8awg wire to the block. This is why it's easier to run the largest wire you can. A little careful calculation might save some money on wire though. There are other charts though, that focus on restraining different aspects of the concept and include different wire sizes. The above has no 2awg for some reason.
 
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