Found these pics on another site with no info on them.
Looks like they bolt right on to Dana 60's.
Anybody got some info on them?
Looks like they bolt right on to Dana 60's.
Anybody got some info on them?
CK5
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Portal Conversion
- Thread starter Tabb
- Start date
shooters_7
Registered Member
Check out these website for your info: www.motorsports.axletech.com and http://blogs.4wheeloffroad.com/6306757/4x4-truck-projects/dana-60-bolt-on-portal-axle/index.html
$6500/pr.
'Nuff said.
Don't think you'll be meeting a lot of folks who are running them.
'Nuff said.
Don't think you'll be meeting a lot of folks who are running them.
Thats crazy$6500/pr.
'Nuff said.
Don't think you'll be meeting a lot of folks who are running them.
, why would someone pay that when you can get a whole set of front and rear unimog axles for about $2000.00Other than the simplicity of just bolting them.
Blazr77400
1/2 ton status
The pictures above are Unimog 404 portal axles with a disc brake conversion on them.
jimmy1984
1/2 ton status
$6500/pr.
'Nuff said.
Don't think you'll be meeting a lot of folks who are running them.
$6500/pr ? I read 6500/set or is that what you ment? either way thats still alot to pay when a set of portal axles can be had for 2-3 grand.
Their pricing sheet seems a little ambiguous (set vs. pair) but as you mention, it's expensive either way.
To be fair, setting up a pair of Mog 404s isn't proving to be cheap either..... disc brakes, CTIS and CNC-machined portal boxes all add a considerable amount to the "cheap" acquisition cost of the axles (~$1500/pr).
My biggest concern with those PortalTek conversions is how wide they appear to make the axle. Scrub radius has got to be horrible....I'm not sure that even a non-recentered H1 wheel (7" BS) would be enough to correct it.
To be fair, setting up a pair of Mog 404s isn't proving to be cheap either..... disc brakes, CTIS and CNC-machined portal boxes all add a considerable amount to the "cheap" acquisition cost of the axles (~$1500/pr).
My biggest concern with those PortalTek conversions is how wide they appear to make the axle. Scrub radius has got to be horrible....I'm not sure that even a non-recentered H1 wheel (7" BS) would be enough to correct it.
Blazr77400
1/2 ton status
The links above are not Portal Tek. They do custom portal axles, not conversions. Here is there website. http://www.portal-tek.com/index.html
The first links are to Axle tek. They have the "bolt on" portals. A set is front and rear portals 4 total with all shafts etc to hook them up. This should be a complete set.
Just add wheels to the equation.
Portal Tek is the other guys that have been around for a while but are becoming more famous right now for their 14bolt dropout center section and sheetmetal housing.
Fred Williams has put a set of the Axle tek portals on the Fun buggy so we shall see how they hold up. He has Moab and now the Tin benders Jambo at the hammers on them so I am sure some real world input is coming.
The price tag is steep but you also get a lot for the price of portals. I would guess that by the time you put a mog setup in you will be just below $5,000 without wheels.
Whats your time to mess with all the work worth?
Just add wheels to the equation.
Portal Tek is the other guys that have been around for a while but are becoming more famous right now for their 14bolt dropout center section and sheetmetal housing.
Fred Williams has put a set of the Axle tek portals on the Fun buggy so we shall see how they hold up. He has Moab and now the Tin benders Jambo at the hammers on them so I am sure some real world input is coming.
The price tag is steep but you also get a lot for the price of portals. I would guess that by the time you put a mog setup in you will be just below $5,000 without wheels.
Whats your time to mess with all the work worth?
Brandon,
Thanks for the clarification. I scanned the website quickly and didn't make the connection that this was a different offering than the Portal-Tek deal I'd seen before.
The idea of a true "bolt-on" portal for the D60/14BFF is actually VERY interesting!
Given that the pricing is a set (all 4 corners) certainly makes it more of a consideration, as does the idea that someone can re-use their existing 1-Ton axles instead of scrapping them and starting over.
I'm liking this idea more and more.
Do you have any idea what the total dimension from the kingpin steering axis to the wheel mounting surface is? Scrub radius is still a concern, and the photo they have of an H1 wheel mounted to the portal makes it seem like the overall track width of a K5 with this setup is going to be substantially wider than people are used to.
Time to go search their site again for a FAQ...
Thanks for the clarification. I scanned the website quickly and didn't make the connection that this was a different offering than the Portal-Tek deal I'd seen before.
The idea of a true "bolt-on" portal for the D60/14BFF is actually VERY interesting!
Given that the pricing is a set (all 4 corners) certainly makes it more of a consideration, as does the idea that someone can re-use their existing 1-Ton axles instead of scrapping them and starting over.
I'm liking this idea more and more.
Do you have any idea what the total dimension from the kingpin steering axis to the wheel mounting surface is? Scrub radius is still a concern, and the photo they have of an H1 wheel mounted to the portal makes it seem like the overall track width of a K5 with this setup is going to be substantially wider than people are used to.
Time to go search their site again for a FAQ...
Greg
I don't have enough info on these to really answer any of those questions. I know they have been working with Industry Professionals on these for a few years.
Stephens impressions from meeting with them were all good. I know they worked long and hard to make this as much of a bolt on affair as they could, but you have to go with a large backspace wheel (perhaps more than Hummer rims) to keep the track width down.
I don't have enough info on these to really answer any of those questions. I know they have been working with Industry Professionals on these for a few years.
Stephens impressions from meeting with them were all good. I know they worked long and hard to make this as much of a bolt on affair as they could, but you have to go with a large backspace wheel (perhaps more than Hummer rims) to keep the track width down.
The threads on "bolt on" portals over on Pirate rakes them over the coals. Mainly for the price but also for the stress and leverage factor it seems to put on the axle/knuckle. If it's tested and is bullet proof the proof is there, But I know I have not seen any real writeup, review, or testing on these yet.
I KNOW for $6500.00, no matter how good they are I won't be buying them. You just can't beat the tried and true D60/14FF combo IMHO. Sure they can and have been broken many times but EVERYTHING has a breaking point. Finesse is ofcourse key and common knowledge to parts longevity. Hammer down when you can without concern cause it's just fun but in the tough stuff only when necessary and hope for the best. I would think the longfields & 300M or cromo's in the 14FF would be plenty stout for 99% of people wheelin out there.
I KNOW for $6500.00, no matter how good they are I won't be buying them. You just can't beat the tried and true D60/14FF combo IMHO. Sure they can and have been broken many times but EVERYTHING has a breaking point. Finesse is ofcourse key and common knowledge to parts longevity. Hammer down when you can without concern cause it's just fun but in the tough stuff only when necessary and hope for the best. I would think the longfields & 300M or cromo's in the 14FF would be plenty stout for 99% of people wheelin out there.
Stomis
Professional Amateur
A huge advantage I see to those bolt on portals is also being able to keep a higher gears r&p which keeps a load of strength in the pumpkin rather than thinning them out to stuff more teeth in.
You also have to remember those portals also give a huge amount more ground clearance and lift. You basically dont need a huge lift kit to run big tires but we're not really all about that here anyway...
You also have to remember those portals also give a huge amount more ground clearance and lift. You basically dont need a huge lift kit to run big tires but we're not really all about that here anyway...
Yep.
You could use the lowest numeric gearset available for the D60 (3.54) combined with the 1.5 ratio of the portal and only be at 5.31:1 reduction.... that's still totally highway-friendly with an OD transmission.
And yes, developing the torque at the wheel instead of at the pumpkin means a LOT less stress on the ring & pinion and axleshafts too.
Rob, I'd be concerned about the leverage factor too....but to be fair, this company appears to have done some serious finite-element analysis on the design as well as some real-life load testing to prove things out. Of course, there is always someone who can break ANYTHING no matter how well-designed it is. Really it comes down to the degree of overkill that is required.... at some point, all you're doing is adding extra weight and cost as you move to larger components and more exotic materials.
You could use the lowest numeric gearset available for the D60 (3.54) combined with the 1.5 ratio of the portal and only be at 5.31:1 reduction.... that's still totally highway-friendly with an OD transmission.
And yes, developing the torque at the wheel instead of at the pumpkin means a LOT less stress on the ring & pinion and axleshafts too.
Rob, I'd be concerned about the leverage factor too....but to be fair, this company appears to have done some serious finite-element analysis on the design as well as some real-life load testing to prove things out. Of course, there is always someone who can break ANYTHING no matter how well-designed it is. Really it comes down to the degree of overkill that is required.... at some point, all you're doing is adding extra weight and cost as you move to larger components and more exotic materials.
four_by_ken
1/2 ton status
This change isnt to get stronger... its to raise your dif up... thats the main benefit of portals. And the tried and true Dana 60/14 bolt cant compete with that.
I looked at these and figured it'd add about 8" of width to the front axle. Then I was questioning what the added leverage (height and width) is gonna do to the stock inner C's. It's also not getting as much ground clearance as a regular 'mog axle or a 9"/mog hybrid. I kinda wondered why they did this on a D60 in the first place, since the extreme r&p strength of a D60 isn't necessary with portals.
They're high on the "cool" factor, but I don't think they'll sell enough to cover the trouble of designing them.
They're high on the "cool" factor, but I don't think they'll sell enough to cover the trouble of designing them.
blowedupmotor87
1/2 ton status
I'd say it's a cool product! As for why a 60/14bff when the r&p strength isn't needed, I'd look at axle tube size and wall thickness as being a factor in the choice, a dana 44 might have the r&p strength necessary but would have thinner smaller tubes. There's already a similar product out there for 9" Fords. So, the logical step (IMO) would be 60's and 14bffs, lots of people run them, and lots of people wish they had more ground clearance under them so, boom, there's a market for them! I can't afford them but, I sure wish I could! Heck, I'd lower my truck below stock spring height to run them at low lift LOL!
Stomis
Professional Amateur
I looked at these and figured it'd add about 8" of width to the front axle. Then I was questioning what the added leverage (height and width) is gonna do to the stock inner C's. It's also not getting as much ground clearance as a regular 'mog axle or a 9"/mog hybrid. I kinda wondered why they did this on a D60 in the first place, since the extreme r&p strength of a D60 isn't necessary with portals.
Lol I wouldnt call d60 r and p strength extreme. 14b has extreme rp strength...
I could see these being awesome for toyota axles if done right. The added width would make it right about fullsize regular width. Plus 4.10 toyota gears are extremely strong.
four_by_ken
1/2 ton status
I dont think I would want to put Yota kunckles, C's, ball joints and tubes under my 6,000lb plus truck.
Stomis
Professional Amateur
Yota axles have no balljoints. They have a bearing version of a kingpin called a trunion bearing. And with a kit like that you wouldnt use the knuckles anyway.
A fully trussed yota housing is quite strong. Yes true stock they are a little lacking but with a truss kit for the C's they are pretty beef.
