pauly383
Daddy383
Open vent for air to blow in from fan = evaporator exposed to cabin and leaky refrigerant air mailed to your whole dash 
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Propane instead of R134 or R12
- Thread starter LVJimmy
- Start date
pauly383
Daddy383
I heard that over and over from my stepfather the drunk ( I hate him ) . The company is over 200 years old , and it exists for money , yes it does .
But it did not get the freon banned so it could make more money . Whats the difference , it sells little cans of something regardless .
No , it was the hippies and our elected officials that got rid of freon 12 .
lectric80
3/4 ton status
You know, the only way that arguement would actually hold water is if Dupont was the only company manufacturing Freon. They did have a patent on the name, but not on CFC's or R-12/R-134a. And the other companies manufacturing R-12 were not paying royalties to Dupont, nor do they pay any for R-134a. A little research at the PTO or a Google search will help you understand why Dupont didn't actually have anything to do with the banning of R-12 for automotive systems.
Edit: One other thing to remember is that patents don't last forever, and the patent for R-12 would have run out in the 1950's at the latest.
Thunder
3/4 ton status
Pro-pane
Welll........ im all for that stuff
smalltruckbigcid
1/2 ton status
Not making an arguement. And Dupont has about 300,000 gallons of R-12 in storage in Rosemont MN. Its been there in the same tanks since 1989.
But nobody addressed the fact of what Europe is using. IIRC R-134 has a lower flashpoint the HC refrigerants under pressure. So if a pinhole leak happens its more likely to burn than an HC type.
But I'll pose this question. Any liquid that has a boiling point below zero will work as a refrigerant. Just that some are very inefficient. But wouldn't a liquid that in a gaseous state thats inert be a good one to use, it has a very cold boiling point of -320.4 below zero. So why don't we use liquid nitrogen?
wasted wages
1 ton status
because the size of the compressor would be huge.....
Liquid nitrogen IS used as an emergency refrigeration system and is very common on many transport refrigeration trailers. the liquid vaporizes,,cools down the trailer and vents to the atmosphere...the cost to contain the vapor,,compress it and recondense it into a liquid is prohibitive..liquid nitrogen is cheap...
Liquid nitrogen IS used as an emergency refrigeration system and is very common on many transport refrigeration trailers. the liquid vaporizes,,cools down the trailer and vents to the atmosphere...the cost to contain the vapor,,compress it and recondense it into a liquid is prohibitive..liquid nitrogen is cheap...
wasted wages
1 ton status
actually all matter has the ability to be a refrigerant...( at the right properties...)
some are just better than others..
Hmm, then why have I pulled countless dashboards out of Chrysler minivans to replace leaky evaporators? Most vehicles from the '90s on up have the evap mounted in the passenger compartment.
smalltruckbigcid
1/2 ton status
Thanks I didn't know that about the size of the compressor. I got to learn something
rufusbooth
1/2 ton status
university experiment to demonstrate the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerant. it went wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtowzVzl_4
Rufus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtowzVzl_4
Rufus
A 2 minute search found the below. R12 sounds a lot safer the propane, at least in a non-compressed state:
R12
Major Hazards
Major Hazards
Major hazard : Fire
R12
Major Hazards
- Major hazard : Decomposes when heated
- Toxicity (Am. Conf. Of Gov. Ind. Hygienists ACGIH 2000 Edition) : 1000 ppm
- Flammability limits in air (STP conditions) : Non-flammable
- Odour : Slightly Ethereal
- UN Number : UN1028
- EINECS Number : 200-893-9
- DOT Label (USA) : NFG
- DOT Hazard class (USA) : Non flammable Gas
Major Hazards
Major hazard : Fire
- Toxicity (Am. Conf. Of Gov. Ind. Hygienists ACGIH 2000 Edition) : 2500 ppm
- Flammability limits in air (STP conditions) : 2.2-9.5 vol%
- Odour : Faintly Disagreeable
- UN Number : UN1978
- EINECS Number : 200-827-9
- DOT Label (USA) : FG
- DOT Hazard class (USA) : Flammable Gas
Yea, I want to go to that school.
1BURBAN
Registered Member
Further proof of natural selection 
I don't see how it went wrong...
1 - Get in a car
2 - Open a can of hydrocarbon-based refrigerant (flammable stuff)
3 - Light a match
Which results in:
4 - Blow the car up and cause serious injury
Looks like it pretty much went right as far as I could tell...I mean it's not like anyone with sense would've predicted another outcome...
When he was in the car with the window up and started messing with the can.... RED FLAG!
When he started diggin' around in the back seat.... RED FLAG!
When he got out the matches..... DING DING DING, we have a winner!
When he started diggin' around in the back seat.... RED FLAG!
When he got out the matches..... DING DING DING, we have a winner!
velojym
Registered Member
Darwin's having a fit of laughter, but this guy escaped with his life, and most of his remaining hair intact.
Allright... who else thinks they could have much more easily (and safely) done the experiment in a lab, in controlled conditions? Yeah? Naturally...
Dumbasses. So what if they didn't believe it would ignite. The possibility was always there, so a smart experimenter would have taken precautions.
As for my Blazer, I'd love to find a decent R12 replacement, but don't really want to roast for it.
I have to wonder whether the patent for R12 happened to expire sometime around its mandated demise... just wondering. Y'know. When rich/powerful folks hop into bed with politicians, not a lot of good can come of it.
lectric80
3/4 ton status
No the patent expired nearly 40 years before it's mandated demise.
