bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
Does anyone know what PTO a person needs to fit the Borg Warner transfer case in a 94 Chevy one ton.. Need to find one for a tow truck conversion
CK5
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Pto ?
- Thread starter bronc3buster842001
- Start date
each one is specific to tranny or tcase there going to for the gear mesh up .
then the output style will need to be picked for just a u-joint / flat flange male/female coupling so on .
talk to your local big truck parts place and were your getting the hydro stuff from for pto pump needs.
then the output style will need to be picked for just a u-joint / flat flange male/female coupling so on .
talk to your local big truck parts place and were your getting the hydro stuff from for pto pump needs.
Tried google and found listings under Chelsea PTO,a Parker Haniford site with an application chart comes up ..very confusing listings though!..
..probably better off leaving it to the pro's to pick the right one..
..probably better off leaving it to the pro's to pick the right one..Thought in 90s t-case PTO's were out? They used the tranny PTO...
bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
The one ton trucks used a Borg Warner t-case.. Same case as found in lots of Fords
The Borg Warner 13-56 transfer case originally had the PTO opening as an option in 1989.
If you ordered it with it, the half of the case that had the opening was made of magnesium instead of aluminum for added strength.
I ordered my 1989 F250 with the option. It came in without it. When I mentioned it, I was informed that the option had been dropped mid-production because even with the stronger metal, they were having problems with cracking.
This seriously bummed me out, since with the C6 transmission, that left me without an option for a PTO winch.
I was exploring the options for a belt drive hydraulic pump, when I started wondering about a 205 transfer case, since Ford had one behind the C6 for years.
A couple of phone calls, and I had a rebuilt 205 with the correct adapter on the way.
I had to fabricate a brace since Ford had put the high pressure fuel pump for the EFI system in the frame rail where the old factory brace used to mount.
And, of course modify the drive shafts and the shifter, but it worked fine.
Due to clearance issues, I had to go with a hydraulic pump mounted to the rear instead of a direct shaft to the front.
But, to get the correct PTO and pump combo, all I had to do, was find out from the winch maker the pressure and flow necessary for full load. I called a local heavy equipment company that specialized in PTO stuff.
Told him I had a C6 transmission, 205 transfer case, and what flow and pressure I wanted at 1500 engine RPM.
I picked the 1500 figure out of the air, figured that was a good working speed for long term winching.
They shipped me an adapter with the pump already mounted plus shims to set the gear depth.
It worked great. My only mistake was in the requirements I specified. I asked the winch maker for the maximum needed, and that was what I got.
If I remember, I said I wanted 1500psi@20gpm.
As a result, the pump was huge. Plus I made a lot of mistakes with the plumbing and other parts, but the system has been on there and worked hard since 1989. And other than a hose change due to rot after about 10 years, its still going strong.
You need to find out what model transfer case you have, and make sure it has a usable opening.
If not, and your transmission does not support PTO, there are belt drive kits that you can use.
If you ordered it with it, the half of the case that had the opening was made of magnesium instead of aluminum for added strength.
I ordered my 1989 F250 with the option. It came in without it. When I mentioned it, I was informed that the option had been dropped mid-production because even with the stronger metal, they were having problems with cracking.
This seriously bummed me out, since with the C6 transmission, that left me without an option for a PTO winch.
I was exploring the options for a belt drive hydraulic pump, when I started wondering about a 205 transfer case, since Ford had one behind the C6 for years.
A couple of phone calls, and I had a rebuilt 205 with the correct adapter on the way.
I had to fabricate a brace since Ford had put the high pressure fuel pump for the EFI system in the frame rail where the old factory brace used to mount.
And, of course modify the drive shafts and the shifter, but it worked fine.
Due to clearance issues, I had to go with a hydraulic pump mounted to the rear instead of a direct shaft to the front.
But, to get the correct PTO and pump combo, all I had to do, was find out from the winch maker the pressure and flow necessary for full load. I called a local heavy equipment company that specialized in PTO stuff.
Told him I had a C6 transmission, 205 transfer case, and what flow and pressure I wanted at 1500 engine RPM.
I picked the 1500 figure out of the air, figured that was a good working speed for long term winching.
They shipped me an adapter with the pump already mounted plus shims to set the gear depth.
It worked great. My only mistake was in the requirements I specified. I asked the winch maker for the maximum needed, and that was what I got.
If I remember, I said I wanted 1500psi@20gpm.
As a result, the pump was huge. Plus I made a lot of mistakes with the plumbing and other parts, but the system has been on there and worked hard since 1989. And other than a hose change due to rot after about 10 years, its still going strong.
You need to find out what model transfer case you have, and make sure it has a usable opening.
If not, and your transmission does not support PTO, there are belt drive kits that you can use.
bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
Think I may look in to just converting the winch from electric to hydro.. Then just run a hydro pump off the motor.. Seems that will be the easiest to do..
Any good way to determine size of a hydro motor for the winch..
Any good way to determine size of a hydro motor for the winch..
You need to find out the name and model of the winch you intend to use. Most of the name brands have the info you need to determine which winch motor you want to use.
For instance, here is the page for my winch.
http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/pb-209.pdf
If you have not bought the winch yet, order it with the motor attached. Cheaper and will be correct.
The bigger the motor the lower the pressure you need but the more flow. Flow is usually better than pressure.
The higher the pressure, the heavier the hoses need to be, and the stronger everything else needs to be.
When I ordered my winch, I had an option I wish I had gone for. They showed a two speed motor.
It used hydraulic pressure to shift a plate inside the motor to change its cubic inches.
The one I have now, is an 8 cubic inch. I think I wrote the wrong numbers on my last post.
I actually ordered a pump that would output 2,000psi@20gpm. Which means my winch hoses have to handle 2K or better under heavy load.
The optional motor was a 10/5 cubic inch one.
In 10 cubic inch mode, it would give me full pull at around 1200psi or so, but would take more flow and the winch would be slower.
When I shifted to the 5ci mode, it would not be as strong, but would pull in fast. This would be great for winding the cable up after a long pull.
I did not go with the option, because it would have meant more plumbing. Not only a third, small lower pressure line to do the shifting, plus the control valve, but it needed a case drain back to the tank.
Still wish I had done it though. Would love the higher wind in speed and the lower working pressure.
Be advised, I talked to my wrecker buddy some time ago about belt drive pumps, and he said that if he has the option, he always goes PTO.
Less complicated, and sometimes the belts will slip under a strong load.
If I had no other option, I would go belt over electric, just due to the long term pulling capacity.
Let me know if I can help. I have a friend who owns a multi truck wrecker service whose brains I can pick.
For instance, here is the page for my winch.
http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/pb-209.pdf
If you have not bought the winch yet, order it with the motor attached. Cheaper and will be correct.
The bigger the motor the lower the pressure you need but the more flow. Flow is usually better than pressure.
The higher the pressure, the heavier the hoses need to be, and the stronger everything else needs to be.
When I ordered my winch, I had an option I wish I had gone for. They showed a two speed motor.
It used hydraulic pressure to shift a plate inside the motor to change its cubic inches.
The one I have now, is an 8 cubic inch. I think I wrote the wrong numbers on my last post.
I actually ordered a pump that would output 2,000psi@20gpm. Which means my winch hoses have to handle 2K or better under heavy load.
The optional motor was a 10/5 cubic inch one.
In 10 cubic inch mode, it would give me full pull at around 1200psi or so, but would take more flow and the winch would be slower.
When I shifted to the 5ci mode, it would not be as strong, but would pull in fast. This would be great for winding the cable up after a long pull.
I did not go with the option, because it would have meant more plumbing. Not only a third, small lower pressure line to do the shifting, plus the control valve, but it needed a case drain back to the tank.
Still wish I had done it though. Would love the higher wind in speed and the lower working pressure.
Be advised, I talked to my wrecker buddy some time ago about belt drive pumps, and he said that if he has the option, he always goes PTO.
Less complicated, and sometimes the belts will slip under a strong load.
If I had no other option, I would go belt over electric, just due to the long term pulling capacity.
Let me know if I can help. I have a friend who owns a multi truck wrecker service whose brains I can pick.
I'm going off of memory so don't quote me, but the 88-98 Chevy 3500's didn't use the same BW cases as the Fords, they were 4401 in SRW trucks and 4404 in DRW trucks? Pretty sure that's right, no 1356 in Chevy trucks ever to my knowledge (that's the most common Ford t-case in the 80's-90's).
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bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
The winch is done on the truck.. I believe its a Ramsey, but not for sure.. I looked at it the other day and saw it the motor was held on by 4 bolts..
Im trying to figure all this out for a friend.
100% no PTO in an auto tranny in that generation of truck.
If you use a hydraulic winch, forget about the power steering pump. BIG medium+ duty stuff or nothing, should probably be a dedicated pump for the winch and not the power steering.
The OE GM p-pump (probably the best OE power steering pump ever for light duty trucks, used in almost every Chevy truck for the last 50 years or so) is still only ~1000psi and ~3GPM out of the box. Compare that to what Fordum is recommending. They're not even close to good for that application.
Not sure if you were thinking of using the OE power steering pump or an additional one, but you should definitely do the latter.
bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
Yep, I should have mentioned that. No way the PS pump will work. There is a company that specializes on adding hydraulic pumps to trucks. I found them back when I was thinking about converting.
My only problem, is that I cannot put the transmission in gear and back up while the PTO is engaged like I could with my old direct drive PTO.
I have to shift the PTO out of gear first. I was thinking that I could switch to a belt drive pump and make things easier.
After pricing the kit, plus seeing the mods to the present belt setup, I decided to stay with what I had.
The kits seem to work well, and are supposedly well engineered. Just more trouble than I wanted since I already had a working system.
I will check and find the link to the kits.
My only problem, is that I cannot put the transmission in gear and back up while the PTO is engaged like I could with my old direct drive PTO.
I have to shift the PTO out of gear first. I was thinking that I could switch to a belt drive pump and make things easier.
After pricing the kit, plus seeing the mods to the present belt setup, I decided to stay with what I had.
The kits seem to work well, and are supposedly well engineered. Just more trouble than I wanted since I already had a working system.
I will check and find the link to the kits.
Here is the link to the company that makes the kits. There are probably others, but this seems to be the main one.
http://www.deweze.com/hydraulics/
http://www.deweze.com/hydraulics/
Also just checked the Ramsey site. They make electric and hydraulic versions of their winches, so if its a Ramsey, they should be able to sell you the parts to convert it.
Their 12k winch only uses a 6ci motor. I think they make up for the lesser input power by a higher gear ratio.
But it needs 2700 psi for full pull. If its an option, I would go with a slightly larger motor.
Hope this helps. Let us know what happens.
Their 12k winch only uses a 6ci motor. I think they make up for the lesser input power by a higher gear ratio.
But it needs 2700 psi for full pull. If its an option, I would go with a slightly larger motor.
Hope this helps. Let us know what happens.
from a tow truck driver every day I can tell you do it right .
hydro flow and psi is were its at for speed .
you don't wana have it work but take 10 min to do it.
if anything leave it all hydro and just do a engine drivin hydro clutch pump .
hydro flow and psi is were its at for speed .
you don't wana have it work but take 10 min to do it.
if anything leave it all hydro and just do a engine drivin hydro clutch pump .
I just bought a 2000 K3500 4500 and whatever case, and it has a PTO on the tranny not the case...Not sure if it matters now or not...
