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Raptor 700R4 rebuild kits opinions?

nsxxtreme

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So my 700R4 finally burned out 3rd gear. I pretty much knew it was comming. So I am going to try and rebuild my transmission myself.

I was looking online at rebuild kits for the 700R4 and came across PATC website. I can get a complete rebuild kit for $932 price is high but I would expect a really good product. Anyone have any experience with them?

Is it worth the extra cost? Do I really need what they are selling? My truck has 35" tires and 4.56 gears and a rebuilt 50 miles on it (guessing) 200hp 350 V8. I want to be able to tow a 4000lb boat.

Looking to get this done ASAP.
Please feel free to recommend other kits.
 
Go to www.bowtieoverdrives.com and pick up a complete 700r4 stage 2 for $1295 and drop it in. Much easier than rebuilding it yourself, since 700's tend to be pretty touchy setups. Can't say as far as that kit, but it doesn't look like Raptor's have had a good reputation on this board:

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49661&highlight=raptor

Not saying that is the case, but they are a very picky trans for a rebuilder who knows what he is doing. For that much money, I would rather spend the extra to get a BTO setup that I know is warrantied and will be a bolt in setup. Even their level 1 trans is only $100 more than that kit, and it will be ready to bolt in.
 
Stay away from the raptor transmissions. Do some searching on any 4x4 site and you find issues with the company. The do not like to stand behind there product when it fails.
 
Thanks guys this is the type of info I was looking for.

Any other opinoins?
 
Another option is to check out a local Vocational School ( Trade School ). They teach transmission repair and may professionally rebuild it for the cost of the parts ($200 - 500). You may get faster service if you pull the transmission and deliver it to them. Usually the instructor oversees each student work and they have all the unique tools required to do the job.
3 rd gear was the 700 R4's weak link. The instructor should know how to minimize this design flaw.
 
IME there aren't that many people that know how to rebuild a 700R4 correctly. Choose your rebuild wisely, I wouldn't do it myself.
 
I bought a 700R4 rebuild video and to be honest it didn't really look that hard. The specialty tools is the only thing I dont have.

I called a local guy and he wants $595 for a rebuilt 700R4 and will add whatever upgrades I want. So I might go this route. To bad about the Raptor I would expect a company that wants top dollar for there products to stand behind them. That's the reason people go to them is because they are looking for a quality product that the manufacturer will stand behind. Quality products can be found anywhere it's the service that differentiates you from the pack.

I just want to make sure it can take the abuse I am going to throw at it.
Which mainly will be 35" tires, 4.56 axle gears and a 4000lb boat.

What should I have done to the tranny to make it last?
 
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$595 seems EXTREMELY low for a 700r4 rebuild...most places I've called (locally and n los angeles) were between $1300-$1700...looks like the ones on that website are a good deal...looks like the route I'll be going...
 
$595 seems EXTREMELY low for a 700r4 rebuild...most places I've called (locally and n los angeles) were between $1300-$1700...looks like the ones on that website are a good deal...looks like the route I'll be going...
Most independent shops around here aren't much higher. Seemed reasonable to me. Since the master rebuild kits are not very expensive to begin with. Corvette servoes he was charging $10 extra for. A heavy duty torque converter he wanted $100 extra. And supposedly the tranny has been beefed up. Once I get the transmission out I'll talk with him some more.

The info I am looking for is what parts should I have upgraded, and what parts should I stay away from?
 
there's no way your getting a "beefed" trans for that kinda money... be leary, MANY a tranny guy has misbuilt the 700.....

quality rebuild parts to build a bulletproof 700r4 are about a grand, WITHOUT the converter... sun shell, 13 vane pump, good clutch pack, servo, etc all add up quick...

as for being easy, eh, I've read thru it all, and would take it on, but it certainly makes me WAY more nervous than ANY other work on my rig, and I've got 60 grand in tools and 30 yrs experience turning wrenches..... not only are there special tools and tricks, but multiple tests that need to be performed during the build...
 
I installed a BTO 700r4 in my K5 about three years ago. Stage 2. 454 engine 31" tires. Towed well over their 6000lb limit, many burn outs, stuck vehicle removals. Still pulls well enough to get second gear burn out. Never had an issue with it. Make sure what ever brand you go with get the TV cable set perfectly.
 
For the amount of work and money involved in building a 700r4 it just doesn't make sense to do one yourself if you don't already have the tools and experience. I don't mean to say that you're not capable of doing it, it's just that when you add up the costs of having to do it twice (and odds are you will) you'll be money ahead by calling up Bow Tie. They are probably the best mail order trans you'll ever get. DO NOT give any money to those goofs at raptor you'll regret it.

If you do decide that you have to do it yourself at all costs then you'll need a few tools that really aren't optional:
1: Get an ATSG manual
2: Turbine shaft teflon seal installer and resizer (only use solid seals here)
3: Some kind of a compressor to remove the return springs
4: Special compressor to remove the low reverse retainer
5: Various snap ring pliers
6: Lip seal tool



List of parts for a long lived tranny. Some people may recommend more/less than what I have here but if you use these parts and put it together correctly it will last.

1: Stock low/reverse fritions qty 5
2: 4l60e low reverse steels qty 4
3: "Beast" sun gear shell
4: Thrust washer set
5: Bearing kit
6: Gasket set
7: Wide high energy band
8: Corvette servo (or billet)
9: Overrunning frictions qty 2
10: Overrunning steels qty 2
11: Forward steels qty 5
12: Forward friction (stock is fine) qty 5
13: 3-4 Z pack
14: Reverse input friction qty 4
15: 4l60e reverse input steels qty 4
16: 4l60e apply piston kit (bonded seals)
17: .470 or .500 boost valve
18: Transgo shift kit
19: 10 vane pump kit (they come in different thicknesses to match your pump, so you'll need to measure)
20: The best quality furnace brazed converter you can get
21: TCC apply solenoid
22: Front seal retainer
23: Trans temp gauge
24: The biggest plate style cooler you can get



Ok, if you're still with me you'll notice I typed 10 vane pump and not the 13 vane pump. This is no accident, 13 vane pump rotors only come in one size which may or may not work with your pump body. It could be too loose and cause low pressure or it might be too tight and bind and break, you get the point. Next thing you'll notice is I don't recommend any kolene steels, they seem to cause premature wear of the friction plates because the of rough texture of the steels. Use a high energy band and not the Kevlar, Kevlar can wear the reverse input drum surface in heavy use. Make sure the band surface is perfectly flat on the reverse input drum or the band will have a very short life.


I could go on for many pages with everything but I'll just leave with a few general tips.
Everything must be spotlessly clean.
Follow the manual on everything especially clearances.
Don't be in a hurry
Make sure you have good cooler flow, low cooler flow will kill the reaction planetary in short order.
Follow the instructions exactly on the shift kit



Sure you don't want to call Bow Tie Overdrive?:D
 
Damn dude thanks!!!

This gives me an idea on what to ask my local guy. If i can keep it around $800 I'll probably have the local guy do it. After I get the tranny out I'll discuss with him more in detail what he intends to do. Alot of what you mentioned he also mentioned. Obviously not for $595 but reasonable prices.

I was looking at tool cost and parts and I wouldn't be saving much unless I had to do the job a second time. The motor is new and now the tranny will be new. I'm hopping for it to last a LONG time. It's not a daily driver so it will only be driven maybe 2000 miles/year.

I basically want to take the boat towing duties off of the range rover tranny. I also want something I can tow the dirt bikes out into the woods with and not worry about damage. Basically just a big toy. Thanks guys for all of the responses.
 
Yes, it's tough and yes you will probably make a mistake. This doesn't mean it's not a good skill to learn, though. The easiest rebuild is to do it just like stock. The more things you change, the more likely something won't be quite right. The good news is that the valve body, servo and pump valve can be pulled with the transmission in the vehicle. The 2-3 shift is the critical one because it is timing the release of the band with application of the 3-4 clutch. Changing the servo changes this timing. When parts changed over the years, like the planetaries, etc., there were other small changes that went with them, like different thrust washers/bearings. If you don't get these right when you upgrade to newer or better parts, the clearances will be off or things can wear against each other.

I think a good idea is to call a local shop that has a transmission dyno and see what they charge to test your tranny before you install it.
 
Normally I try and do everything myself. I'm an engineer so I guess learning new things is what I enjoy to do. Plus if you break it you have no one else to blame. Nothing pisses me off more then paying someone top dollar and have them promise you the world then when something goes wrong they are no where to be found or come up with nothing but excuses.

Part of learning to do it yourself educates you and you know if someone is giving you a line of BS.

Adding costs of parts and tools up and how often I intend to use this truck it just doesn't make sense for me to rebuild it if I can get it for $800. Mainly the tool costs is the road block. I rebuilt the engine myself, this I will look into letting someone else do as long as the costs make sense.
 
Part of the cost difference may because the it sounds like the original poster was planning on removing and reinstalling the trans himself, versus the shop doing it.

I can't tell you what parts you should have upgraded but can make some comments about installation and how to make it last better.

- Make sure to completely, and thoroughly flush out the existing cooler and lines. Almost use a new torque converter. Any debris left in the cooler system or in an old converter spell a quick death for a new trans (I know of several instances locally where the new trans failed quickly because of this, and will guess this is the issue with most people on this board who have had a new trans fail quickly)
- It is extremely important that the TV (throttle valve) cable is hooked up properly and adjusted (can cause issues just like above).
- You need a big auxilliary cooler for the trans.
- Good idea to keep the trans is 3rd (out of OD) when towing. 4k is not huge, but big enough to put a decent load on the truck. One of the biggest enemies is "shift-hunt" condition where the trans is constantly shifting between 3rd and OD
 
has anyone tried using type F fluid in a 700R4? I have used it in several 3 speed automatics with great results. One of the cars was slipping so bad that it wouldn't move. Drained out the dexron 2 refilled with type F and the trans worked great. I was just wondering if it was worth trying on a 700R4?
 
Part of the cost difference may because the it sounds like the original poster was planning on removing and reinstalling the trans himself, versus the shop doing it.
Correct, removing and replacing a tranny is a piece of cake. Doesn't everyone who own these things do at least that?
I'll hopefully have the tranny out this weekend, no time to do it now.
 
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