84gmcjimmy
1 ton status
what rear axles can be made to steer? I know 2.5T rockwells can, what else?
CK5
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rear steer axles...
- Thread starter 84gmcjimmy
- Start date
84_Chevy_K10
Banned
Any axle can be made to steer. The question is, do you want to pay the money for custom axle shafts, and what are you going to use for outers?
This could easily be done with a 10 bolt rear with mostly stock parts I'd imagine, but it wouldn't hold up to anything but a 2,000 lb buggy, if that.
Most guys that have rear steer have at least a Dana 60, and since most of the work, even off road, is done by the rear axle due to weight transfer, it takes a really tough rear axle to hold up to the stresses of rear steer.
I saw a 3,500 lb Jeep break a rear axleshaft/joint in a D60 with rear steer at a rock crawling comp.
This could easily be done with a 10 bolt rear with mostly stock parts I'd imagine, but it wouldn't hold up to anything but a 2,000 lb buggy, if that.
Most guys that have rear steer have at least a Dana 60, and since most of the work, even off road, is done by the rear axle due to weight transfer, it takes a really tough rear axle to hold up to the stresses of rear steer.
I saw a 3,500 lb Jeep break a rear axleshaft/joint in a D60 with rear steer at a rock crawling comp.
84gmcjimmy
1 ton status
so any axle, its just expensive, and also has to be really strong?
I dont want rear steer, as I probably wouldn't use it very much, I was just wondering.
I dont want rear steer, as I probably wouldn't use it very much, I was just wondering.
K5MONSTERCHEV
1/2 ton status
The expensive part would be the hydraulics to steer it. Still a lot less expensive to build your own then buy one. I will be making one for my blazer. Its going to be just like my front, with beefier knuckles.
darkshadow
1 ton status
thays is coo but if I was going to go through all that troble and expence i would want a hell of a lot more that 10* or turn, i would want full trun capability.
/forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif sure make the sub more nimble on trails /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif sure make the sub more nimble on trails /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
84gmcjimmy
1 ton status
damn 6 lug /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
K5MONSTERCHEV
1/2 ton status
That is a hellof a deal!! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
I had talked to the GM instructor about using this axle. He said it would be hard to make it work because its controlled by electronics. You could always just run some hydraulics back there though! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
I had talked to the GM instructor about using this axle. He said it would be hard to make it work because its controlled by electronics. You could always just run some hydraulics back there though! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
fordcummins1
1/2 ton status
Once you get over the initial higher cost of Mog 404 axles, the rears can easily be made to steer by unbolting the non steer portal boxes, and bolting on a set of 404 steer portals. All in a all, a very easy job. Plumbing the hydro steer would be the toughest part, but still very easy considering how much info is out there on it.
85mudblazin
1/2 ton status
cant you put D60 knuckles on a 14bff?? I heard this on one post where some guy screwed up his 14bff, he had a hole in the axle area.
Yes but you have to bore out the knuckles to fit the larger tube. I am in the middle of doing this now, using GM 60 outers on a 14 bolt but I Replaced the tube and machined the spot for an inner axle seal into the diff end of the tube and such. Alot of people don't think about axle seals on a steering axle until they have already built it and all the fluid poors out /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
darkshadow
1 ton status
ifr you got a front 60 cut the tubes extended the one side and shortened the long side(centering the pumkin) and had axles made with some hydro lines split off the lines on the front (only reversed, with a shot off for non trail driveing)
i also had a though and was wondering what you guys though of it:
for custom axles why not use a slightly weaker ujoints?
makeing them the weak link, cheaper to replace a u joint then a shaft, and easier. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
i also had a though and was wondering what you guys though of it:
for custom axles why not use a slightly weaker ujoints?
makeing them the weak link, cheaper to replace a u joint then a shaft, and easier. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Tieing the ram into the front system would suck... I would very rarely want to have them steering at the same time, I would want to crab walk around something, or keep the front straight and swing the back end around something.
As far as axles, anything is weak in the rear. Unless you run a minimum of CTM's and a yukon 4340 shaft your going to break often in a heavy full size and large tires. I plan on running Convel CV joints and 40 spline axles. They are basically the CV used in the rear stear 60's in the new GM's but allow for a slightly larger turning degree angle and are stronger than a 1480 60 joint.
As far as axles, anything is weak in the rear. Unless you run a minimum of CTM's and a yukon 4340 shaft your going to break often in a heavy full size and large tires. I plan on running Convel CV joints and 40 spline axles. They are basically the CV used in the rear stear 60's in the new GM's but allow for a slightly larger turning degree angle and are stronger than a 1480 60 joint.
[ QUOTE ]
thays is coo but if I was going to go through all that troble and expence i would want a hell of a lot more that 10* or turn, i would want full trun capability.
[/ QUOTE ]
10 degrees in the back actually makes a big difference over non-steering. There are two reasons for limiting the angle like this: 1) The further you turn, the weaker the 'joints. and 2) the new trucks have very wide framerails and springs.
You would have to swap your steering column or retrofit a steering wheel position sensor onto yours. You also need a couple of sensors that could be grabbed from a Quadrasteer truck. You also need vehicle speed and some serial communications. Best to grab the whole wiring harness. To use this setup, you would probably need somebody who could change the calibrations of the computer. I don't know about you guys, but have never seen a Quadrasteer truck in the junkyard and the parts are VERY $$$ from the dealer.
You could also ditch the electric setup and retrofit an orbital valve and ram in.
thays is coo but if I was going to go through all that troble and expence i would want a hell of a lot more that 10* or turn, i would want full trun capability.
[/ QUOTE ]
10 degrees in the back actually makes a big difference over non-steering. There are two reasons for limiting the angle like this: 1) The further you turn, the weaker the 'joints. and 2) the new trucks have very wide framerails and springs.
You would have to swap your steering column or retrofit a steering wheel position sensor onto yours. You also need a couple of sensors that could be grabbed from a Quadrasteer truck. You also need vehicle speed and some serial communications. Best to grab the whole wiring harness. To use this setup, you would probably need somebody who could change the calibrations of the computer. I don't know about you guys, but have never seen a Quadrasteer truck in the junkyard and the parts are VERY $$$ from the dealer.
You could also ditch the electric setup and retrofit an orbital valve and ram in.
K5MONSTERCHEV
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
Yes but you have to bore out the knuckles to fit the larger tube. I am in the middle of doing this now, using GM 60 outers on a 14 bolt but I Replaced the tube and machined the spot for an inner axle seal into the diff end of the tube and such. Alot of people don't think about axle seals on a steering axle until they have already built it and all the fluid poors out /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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How thick is your tube? Whats the outer diameter? What is the inner diameter? Im just curious for comparison to my axle I built.
What about seals in the outer ends of the tube like on the dana 30s?
Yes but you have to bore out the knuckles to fit the larger tube. I am in the middle of doing this now, using GM 60 outers on a 14 bolt but I Replaced the tube and machined the spot for an inner axle seal into the diff end of the tube and such. Alot of people don't think about axle seals on a steering axle until they have already built it and all the fluid poors out /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
How thick is your tube? Whats the outer diameter? What is the inner diameter? Im just curious for comparison to my axle I built.
What about seals in the outer ends of the tube like on the dana 30s?
I'll go check it later and get back to you. I think I bought 3.75" .75" wall tubing and then machined it to various sizes. It knecks down to go into the 14 bolt like the factory tubes were and then I bored the ends larger to accept the seals, it ended up around .5" wall throughout except the inner ends.
The seals at the outer ends work the same as the inners but you run the risk of killing them much quicker than you do with inner seals. If you break a u-joint the axle will sit on the seals and wear them out in seconds whereas if the seals are at the diff they see very little movement. Same with installing and removing shafts, if the seal is at the outer end you have to slide the whole length of the shaft through the seal which can tear it or stretch it out very quickly and easily, if it's in the inner location only 4-6" of the shaft goes through. I also machined "ramps" into the inside of my axle tubes so that only about 1/8" of the seal rubber sticks out past the steel of the axle tubes. That way when installing shafts the end of the shaft hits the ramp and that locates the axle and then it slides right through the seal, same with removing, this way the full weight of the shaft is not crushing the seal down 1/4" or so.
The seals at the outer ends work the same as the inners but you run the risk of killing them much quicker than you do with inner seals. If you break a u-joint the axle will sit on the seals and wear them out in seconds whereas if the seals are at the diff they see very little movement. Same with installing and removing shafts, if the seal is at the outer end you have to slide the whole length of the shaft through the seal which can tear it or stretch it out very quickly and easily, if it's in the inner location only 4-6" of the shaft goes through. I also machined "ramps" into the inside of my axle tubes so that only about 1/8" of the seal rubber sticks out past the steel of the axle tubes. That way when installing shafts the end of the shaft hits the ramp and that locates the axle and then it slides right through the seal, same with removing, this way the full weight of the shaft is not crushing the seal down 1/4" or so.
