Regret loss of rag joint?

[Mastiff]

I installed ORD crossover and at the same time I bought a Borgeson shaft with no rag joint. Now the steering wheel just saws back and forth all the time unless the road is perfectly smooth. Is this just the way it is, or maybe I made a mistake getting rid of the rag joint? I keep learning the hard way that the factory does stuff for a reason...

 

[Deuling]

Noticed the same thing. It's almost too tight. Where the rag joint soaked up some of it. Oh well I guess.

 

[ryoken]

sounds like you guys have something wrong, sloppy box or something.. I run a heep shaft and x-over and my sh*t its generally rock steady...

 

[Mastiff]

sounds like you guys have something wrong, sloppy box or something.. I run a heep shaft and x-over and my sh*t its generally rock steady...

In my case everything is new, including the box. The thing we have in common is ORD springs. I assume none of us have sway bars anymore, if that matters.

 

[Deuling]

Yah I know my box is sloppy. It's nothing that bothers me. I just actually notice bump steer in the steering wheel now. I never used to have the steering wheel turn much when hitting the dunes. Now it's over every bump... But i don't run a steering stabilizer either, that would prolly help.

 

[sweetk30]

had a guy years ago come in for alignment .

he had it to the dealer few times and even new steering box . they couldn't get the wonder out of it .

I checked play in whole system from scratch and not use the info I knew of its repairs .

I found new oem box loose and I re adjusted the play in the sector shaft and BAM nice and straight down the road no wheel wondering .

 

[ktmoutfront]

I had a rebuilt box with so much slop it was stupid. Because I was doing tapped caps on it, I took it apart. Went through it all and reassembled with adjusting it correctly. No big deal now.

 

[Deuling]

I guess I read the op's post wrong. I didn't realize he meant it wandering. Mine drives nice and straight. I just notice the bump steer in the steering wheel, which the rag joint must have been kind of hiding with the extra slop.

 

[Heavyleft]

I don't notice any "wondering" in my heep shaft but with the new ORD 6" springs, I do have a bit more sway (no sway bar, obviously) but that's the price to have smoother, flexier springs and Im ok with that.

 

[tRustyK5]

X-over is a lot worse for bump steer than push-pull, especially with softer springs that move when you hit a bump. Just check the drag link angle at ride height.

 

[Mastiff]

I'm not talking about wandering. I'm talking about every bump in the road transmits directly into the steering wheel. It's like the opposite of slop almost.

I don't know if it's the crossover or the borgeson, since they both went on at the same time. Dueling, did you have crossover without the borgeson first?

tRusty, what do you mean about the draglink angle? There's nothing I can do about it, is there?

 

[Blue85]

X-over is a lot worse for bump steer than push-pull, especially with softer springs that move when you hit a bump. Just check the drag link angle at ride height.

This is my conclusion as well. I've read about push-pull steering having bad bump steer, but I never saw it in 15+ years of driving it. The problem with push-pull shows up when you get big articulation. With crossover you're getting more direct feedback from what's happening with the tires, where push-pull inherently has a little play from the geometry. A good rag joint doesn't really give much. You can put the steering at the end of travel and reef on the steering wheel - that rag joint won't flex 1 degree or it's bad.

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

Nope, I went crossover, and xj steering shaft and loved it. It always felt sloppy before, let alone the bumpsteer.

 

[tRustyK5]

Look at the angle from the pitman to the steering arm. When you hit a bump this angle flattens out. Either the front end needs to move laterally, or the pitman arm needs to move a little to allow for the change in 'length'. The pitman being forced to move on compression is what you feel in the truck. The steering wheel moves when you hit a bump.

X-over allows you to still have full steering when the diff is all twisted up off road, but it also gives you more noticeable bump steer on the road.

It's something you get used to, just keep a little looser grip on the wheel when driving and let the wheel move through your hands a bit on the bumps. If you just allow the steering wheel to do that the truck will stay in it's lane just fine. If you try and fight it the truck may actually steer a little on bumps.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Is your crossover draglink a straight or bent style? I'm going to guess yours is straight style which will cause the issue you're having alot more than a bent draglink would.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Is your crossover draglink a straight or bent style? I'm going to guess yours is straight style which will cause the issue you're having alot more than a bent draglink would.

How so? Bending the draglink takes angle off of the joints and can help clearance, but it doesn't change geometry. The draglink could be bent like a crazy straw and it wouldn't change bump steer at all.

 

[badmix]

Im on 33s, XJ shaft, all front end components are within 5-6 years old. I dont get much wonder, but im also running with no Sway Bar. But id never go back to Rag Joints. IMO, these are trucks, not luxury cars, I dont really expect much from them, lol.

 

[USSkoval]

How so? Bending the draglink takes angle off of the joints and can help clearance, but it doesn't change geometry. The draglink could be bent like a crazy straw and it wouldn't change bump steer at all.

Exactly.

 

[ktmoutfront]

How so? Bending the draglink takes angle off of the joints and can help clearance, but it doesn't change geometry. The draglink could be bent like a crazy straw and it wouldn't change bump steer at all.

I have had that argument many times. I have even laid a diagram out on my bench. Used a string to make an arch. Then bent welding wire to prove the point. One guy still argued that I was wrong.

 

[Deuling]

I don't know if it's the crossover or the borgeson, since they both went on at the same time. Dueling, did you have crossover without the borgeson first?

Yes i had crossover with the rag joint. I never felt the bump steer in the steering wheel, now I do. Thats what I was saying, the rag joint absorbed some of that from the bump steer caused by the crossover steering setup.

Honestly the bump steer doesn't bother me, just something i noticed..

There is probably a reason they went push pull from the factory. We jack em up and change things, yet we wonder why the little stuff never works quite right...