Remote Keyless Entry (RKE)

[dyeager535]

I'm doing it. Trying to be done in a week. We'll see.

First off, does anyone know what the terminals are that are used at the power door lock relay? I want to say that they are Delphi 56 series (or something similar, 56 series is what the "normal" fuse panel firewall connector uses, the late R/V's used a different terminal IIRC), but I'm not home right now to look at them, and even then I'd have to measure the connector dimensions to try and figure it out. That would allow me to order them quickly.

Already bought a cheap RKE kit off ebay, like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...375321?hash=item1c7d20a399:g:uiMAAOSw4CFYpcbZ For $10 or so, figured it would be worth the gamble. If it works but doesn't work well, might look for a more expensive version. They are fairly cheesy, no bolt holes or anything to mount it, but it came as pictured, and with batteries in the fobs.

Just out in the open I got about 100' of distance testing it out, but I'm not expecting nearly that once it's mounted in the truck. The antenna is so short (~6"), getting clear of all the sheet metal is near impossible.

The instructions are almost worthless, but pretty easy wiring with our trucks if you have PDL already. I want to do it cleanly, so I'm going to replace the existing terminals at the PDL relay so I can add the two wires from the RKE (up/down trigger) to the existing relay without butchering the wiring. I'll use a small two terminal connector of some sort to be able to disconnect the RKE module from the PDL relay if I need to pull either one out. I tested it with the RKE connected this way temporarily, and it worked fine. Just those two wires for up/down to the PDL relay, battery +, and ground.

Not going to use any of the other "functions" of the RKE module.

While I like wasting time on improvements with minimal actual value in any case, during the winter when I use the truck camping and hunting, if I lock the doors, it's a real chore to find the key hole when it's pitch black. Not to mention, its normally raining/snowing/freezing, and the truck is often covered in wet mud, so avoiding all that as much as possible would be nice.

I'll try and get some pics of what I'm doing when I figure everything out.

 

[paratrooper307]

I used a Bulldog kit that worked okay. It had a built-in relay and just required tapping into the power/switch wiring to work, and you could add additional relays for things like parking light flash and starter disable. Pretty easy stuff.

 

[jeff in co]

I did install an alarm in mine and took some pictures on the wires I tapped....but can't find them right now. Will have to do some digging.

I actually found a truck in the junkyard that also had an alarm (same kind too). So that helped out quite a bit!

I don't really use the alarm...mainly the door locks as a convenience.

 

[dyeager535]

I believe this has a relay internal too, but I didn't want to interfere with any of the "load" side of the PDL circuit. Figured using the RKE box just to trigger the relay would take the load off the (certainly cheap and weak) internal components of the RKE module.

Looks like the terminals are "standard" Packard/Type 56 Delphi. I ordered five each for three different wire gauges, hoping I made the right bet. Measured the terminals on the relay, they are 1/4" spade terminals (same as headlights?), and that appears to be what the 1966(!) drawings show for the Type 56.

 

[dyeager535]

I screwed up on updating this one. I was pressed for time on install, didn't get part numbers or pics of what I did.

Ended up making a bracket that goes in the factory center speaker position on the dash to hold the control box, since it was the only place I could install it and keep the antenna somewhat un-shielded. Ugly, but some day it should be under the dashpad. I long for the day I can strip the harness out of the truck, remove all the excess wiring, and route it cleanly in the new body.

Install was pretty easy. I did find the factory terminals for the PDL relay on Mouser.com. I ground the crimps off the factory terminals instead of cutting the wires, then crimped the factory lock/unlock wires and RKE box wires to the new terminals, and inserted back into the PDL relay holder. I used the RKE box to trigger the existing PDL relay, same as if you were using the door switches. I figured the less load the $10 box had to take, the more likely it is to survive.

As with most things Chinese, the instructions were more confusing than helpful. But to install the kit on one of these trucks is pretty easy, IIRC only the expected four wires...unlock, lock, power, ground. Challenge is that this will do RKE trunk, and I think an alarm or honk the horn, so a lot of unused terminals for my truck, and the RKE box is also "universal" in PDL operation...some manufacturers used different wiring schemes to accomplish PDL, so the number of RKE terminals (and how they were used), with the near worthless instructions, were ready made for a 12V test light. I put power to the box, grounded the proper wire, then used the 12V light to figure out which was unlock, which was lock, and labeled those wires as such. Powered the box through my auxiliary fuse panel, done.

Been using it (as frequently as I use the truck, which isn't much) since October, and it's not given me any hiccups. It is definitely nice not to need light to get a key in the door, and today the freezing temps/snow/ice didn't affect my ability to unlock it. Coupled with fixing my passenger door hinges, installing my door jamb dome light switches, and lubing all the door lock mechanism, it turned out pretty ok!

 

[Blue85]

It's a K5. When the top is off, entry is always keyless.

But seriously, anybody ever find a kit that can work the rear window? I suspect you need to add limit switches to detect when the window is fully up and down. It would be awesome to make it work with one of these:

Retrofitting an Envoy or Avalanche BCM would be needless headache. But are there aftermarket controllers that can learn codes?

 

[dyeager535]

I wonder if any of the RKE setups have horn/light flashing that is not momentary?

I'm sure there is some sort of digital timer that could be used to turn a relay on for a certain period of time.

 

[rampage]

I wonder if any of the RKE setups have horn/light flashing that is not momentary?

I'm sure there is some sort of digital timer that could be used to turn a relay on for a certain period of time.

Just build one with a 555 timer and a couple resistors/caps for about $2.

 

[Blue85]

The up/down speeds vary a lot with temperature and battery voltage. To use a timer, you might set it for best case conditions and then hit it 2 or 3 times when engine is off and cold temperature. A lot of power windows now are "auto" and work based on current draw. Possibly something like that could be retrofitted and just triggered by the remote system. That's why I was thinking of limit switches, but you might want a timer in parallel so it can't leave the motor on forever if it's not moving. It would take a lot of measurements under "most" conditions.

So a simpler way are "up" and "down" buttons that aren't momentary and assume you're in sight of the vehicle. So a winch wireless remote could be a simple solution, but wouldn't be integrated with the door lock fob (unless somebody sells that?)

 

[6872xtc]

So I don't want to side track this too much.
I have been thinking about the keyless entry before, but I have also been considering if I should go for an alarm as well. I didn't see a concern where I live until a '79 K5 with tons, ARB lockers and TBI got stolen just south of me in Montrose.
So what do you guys know about a combination system with alarm, keyless entry and remote start?

 

[6872xtc]

But I wonder if a simple starter kill switch would be just as effective.

 

[dyeager535]

I still like the column guard for protection. Starting and steering are the two you need to steal these trucks. Breaking the column solves both problems and takes about 2 seconds. The column guard HOPEFULLY stops them from even breaking the window to get in since they can't use the hammer to get through the column. That's my thinking anyway. When they tried to move my truck to steal some stuff I had behind it, I had a column guard on it, and they didn't break the window. (They cut the e-brake cables, but that didn't get them anywhere, who knew pushing 5000+lbs on dirt was hard? lol)

It would be interesting to hear how most of these rigs (if recovered) were stolen. Back when these trucks (and all GM cars from the 70's and 80's) were in the wrecking yards, you could tell all the ones that had been stolen, since the column was broken.

I'm sure an alarm will give some thieves pause...but it's been said numerous times, if people want something bad enough, they will get it. GENERALLY it seems these trucks are stolen with pretty minimal equipment...if they can get in and out in a minute or two, they will take it. If they can't, they probably won't mess with it. Unless they have a lot of time where they won't be spotted working on it...they were nice enough to siphon my gas and not even puncture the tank, so you know they felt they had time.

As to the power rear window, I'm even trying to think of a reason why you'd want remote on it? Maybe some that have really good working rear windows it's an option, but mine only works decent when the alternator is contributing power to the system, and if I want the window down, I'm in the drivers seat, or at the tailgate anyway.

 

[Blue85]

Yeah, sorry it's off topic. I'm thinking of carrying stuff to load in the back. Instead of setting it on the ground and holding the key switch, just push the key fob.

As for an alarm, they can reduce your insurance rates, regardless of effectiveness.

 

[frankin5]

It would have to have a relay to supply power to the window, that all it does to unlock the trunk.

 

[arcansawdave]

A limit switch setup would be easy. Just mount a NC switch where it will be tripped when the window is fully down, another for when it's fully up. Wire them in line with the control circuit for the relay so that they would only control low current.

 

[Blue85]

Yes, the bottom is especially easy because of the stock interlock mechanism at the bottom. You need 1 relay for up and 1 for down anyway (because of how the window motor works), so that makes it easy to put the "down" switch in line with the "down" relay and "up" with the "up" relay. Obviously you can't have either one disable the whole thing.

I still think it needs a timer or thermal limiter or something. If the window gets frozen shut, it will never trip the switch and the motor will just drain the battery.

I've always thought relays in the tailgate combined with a heavy supply wire would really improve the tailgate window performance (ground strap might help, too), but I'm not aware of anybody doing it. A hard-to-access area isn't ideal for adding complexity, but a K5 could seem a lot more accessible with a fast window.

 

[imiceman44]

Yes, the bottom is especially easy because of the stock interlock mechanism at the bottom. You need 1 relay for up and 1 for down anyway (because of how the window motor works), so that makes it easy to put the "down" switch in line with the "down" relay and "up" with the "up" relay. Obviously you can't have either one disable the whole thing.

I still think it needs a timer or thermal limiter or something. If the window gets frozen shut, it will never trip the switch and the motor will just drain the battery.

I've always thought relays in the tailgate combined with a heavy supply wire would really improve the tailgate window performance (ground strap might help, too), but I'm not aware of anybody doing it. A hard-to-access area isn't ideal for adding complexity, but a K5 could seem a lot more accessible with a fast window.

I did that years ago, made a huge difference in the speed of the window.
I did it on the front doors as well.
It needed 4 relays per door because of how the switch works

 

[dyeager535]

I did that years ago, made a huge difference in the speed of the window.
I did it on the front doors as well.
It needed 4 relays per door because of how the switch works

I don't care that this goes off topic, its all of interest to me.

I've heard before that running bigger wires and relays helps the rear window, but I'm trying to understand how. The wire gauge to the motor at 3% loss theoretically supports 15A (Believe it's 10AWG, which is 15A for 20'), I can't imagine the motor draws that much? That would be more than the heater blower motor (at about 10A). The wire just doesn't seem particularly undersized, it would be interesting to know what that motor draws under load.

If it helped, it helped, but perhaps much of that had to do with improved connections?

 

[imiceman44]

I don't care that this goes off topic, its all of interest to me.

I've heard before that running bigger wires and relays helps the rear window, but I'm trying to understand how. The wire gauge to the motor at 3% loss theoretically supports 15A (Believe it's 10AWG, which is 15A for 20'), I can't imagine the motor draws that much? That would be more than the heater blower motor (at about 10A). The wire just doesn't seem particularly undersized, it would be interesting to know what that motor draws under load.

If it helped, it helped, but perhaps much of that had to do with improved connections?

I ran thicker line.
The difference was noticeable

 

[dyeager535]

Just got done swapping out the old unit. Took pics. Not sure what happened, but the first unit quit responding to the key fobs after about a year. For $12, I'm not crying. If this one doesn't last I'll cut my losses though. Still, nice to have, especially in the dark. I would have tested to see if the fobs were the issue, but the wiring pinout changed and I didn't feel like trying to get the fobs to "learn" the old boxes codes. It's a fun project. You could probably use this to retrofit door locks without using the entire GM setup, but I already had power locks so it was very simple.Well, simple save for the frustrating chinese wiring "diagrams".

I know the link won't last, but this is the style I used. Electronics move so fast now, now there are kits down to $8, with a different control box, and apparently no alarm light. But this is the style I installed. As far as I can tell, the control box and connectors are physically the same size, but even in two years the wiring layout changed, even in the same housing with same connectors:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Car-K...328635?hash=item4462522c7b:g:NUoAAOSwTBpe~faJ

Fancy packaging:

The "brains" of the outfit:

The connector. I stripped out all the wires I wouldn't use, which is a bunch. This will do more things than I cared about. I wanted remote door locks. I think you can integrate it into the lighting, I have zero intention of messing with the interior lighting, especially if I'm not sure this will last. I wired this up two years back, the yellow and yellow black are spliced (to the 12V battery wire I believe), as are the white wires, but I can't recall why I used both sets, I don't see why they'd be needed unless you went directly to the door lock solenoids. May be that the box wanted to see both there. Pretty sure I wired it up so the box only remotely triggers the relay to lock or unlock. I know I didn't splice into the door wiring. Actually no splicing of the trucks wire harness...I just added these wires to the factory relay connector terminal.

Plate I whipped up real quick to hold the control box. I figured up high on the dash would get the most range, without being obvious, if I ever put a dash pad in. I get at least 100ft of range, but I think it's well beyond that. Box isn't made to be mounted well. No screw mount, only a single slot which I ran the zip tie through, and then around the whole box and the plate. Zip ties worked fine actually.

This is the plate/control box/alarm LED installed. Hard to tell, but the "alarm" LED is on in this pic. Video shows it. If the engine wasn't devoid of coolant I'd fire it up and see if the box somehow knows the truck is running and the light shuts off. I suspect it does not lol. But the LED is on its own two wire plug from the box, so it can be unplugged easily. As much as the truck sits, I figured the LED would serve as a visual battery indicator lol.

Couple videos.

You can hear the door locks work, and the "Alarm" LED light when locked. I assume the additional clicking from the box is its internal relay operating, dunno:

It works.

Edit: BTW, the alarm light only flashes when the vehicle is locked with the fob. Unlock the truck with the fob, hop in, lock doors with the door switch, light stays off.