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Rocker switch led questions

45acpJr

45acpJr

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Ok 12 volt gurus I have a question for you. I am using Contura switches that have two separate led indicators on them. One illuminates with gauges and the other illuminate when actuated. All of my electrics are now switch operated and everything works. But a few switches are breaking/creating the ground such as the dome light. What I find odd is that the "switch on" led is lit until you turn the switch on. What is causing this? Does anyone have ideas to prevent it? I know these lights draw very little power but am I putting my batteries at risk? If you look at the last pic you can clearly see the switches I am poorly describing.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3444607&postcount=66
 
Do you have a link for the switches? I think I may know what the problem is, but it would help to know how the switches are wired internally.

If it is just the ones which are switching ground instead of power that are doing it, I'm pretty sure I know what is wrong.
Fixing it may be tricky. I suspect you may have to disassemble the switches and swap the diodes around.
You may be able to fix it by changing the connections to the switch, but I need to be sure how they are setup to be sure.
 
I think I can dig something up, let me do some searching and I will be right back
 
OK, made it back.
If you have the speed and room you might want to download this .PDF file.
http://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/Carling-RS-V-Series_0.pdf
You can view it online, but it takes a while to move between the pages online.
Pages 8 and 9 are the ones to see.

The switch version you linked to was this one.

V2D2GHNB-AAC00-000

The second position of the part number refers to the internal circuit, which is page 8.
The fifth position is the lighting circuit which is page 9.

In this part number, the internal circuit is number 2, and the lighting circuit is a G.

Looking at circuit 2, the little triangle means its momentary. When you press the button, it connects pin 2 to pin 3 as long as you hold it. As far as this part is concerned, it would not matter which wires went to which pins.

Where it becomes critical, is in the circuit on page 9. That switch uses circuit G/7. Actually, it uses circuit G, but some switches use the same circuit, but its called 7.

In that circuit, the lighting LED, is number 1. Its powered by the dash light circuit attached to pin 8.
Ground is pin 7.
The "switch on" LED uses the same ground pin 7, and is hooked to pin 3. It gets its power from contact 2 when you press the button and hook pin 2 to pin 3.

With this switch, if you hooked power to pin 3 and the load to pin 2, the switch would work, but the LED would stay on all the time.

But, that is not your problem. Your problem is, that the switch is designed to work with positive voltage.
You are switching ground, which is negative.

In this case, you hook positive voltage to pin 8 which powers the illumination LED through a ground hookup on pin 7.
But then, you hook a ground to pin 2 which is hooked to nothing until you press the button.
Pin 3, is hooked to a hot load, such as the interior lights. The other end of the "power on" LED is always hooked to ground through pin 7.
So, the current from the hot load goes through the LED to ground and causes it to light.
When you press the button, you ground pin 3, which causes that LED to have ground on both ends.
No current flows, and the light goes out.

Let me know if that makes sense. Follow the circuits on the two pages. Circuit 2 and circuit G are actually the two halves of the same switch. If you print one of them out, you could draw in the other half if that would help.

There is probably a switch configuration that would work, I'll look. But that would mean ordering a different switch.
It would be a lot easier to simply add a cheap relay to do the actual ground switching, wire the switch the way its designed to be wired, and let it turn the relay on and off.
 
Thanks for the help but I have to admit I got lost around " ok I made it back", I will re -read this tomarrow when I am a bit more sober, but you can probably expect a pm or two
 
Not a problem. I'm still recovering from some of the stuff I did on the tractor, so I may be a little sluggish in the morning......
 
Couple more things to consider:
The relay is still the best option. It might look like you could rewire the switch, reversing the terminal hookup, but it won't work unless you can go in and reverse the LEDs.
They only work in one polarity, and if you wired the switch the other way, they would not light.
Another option would be to order a switch number:

V2D2UHNB-AAC00-000

Replacing the "G" with a "U". I have no idea if such a switch exists, but from their catalog, it looks like they can build it.
This would require a small amount of jumpering behind the switch, but it would work like it was supposed to, since both the lights are hooked to stand-alone terminals, and can be wired like you want them.

I'm sure there are other configurations that would work, that was just the first one that I saw.

Don't mind PMs, but you never know when someone else might have a solution, or need this info later, so I try to do most of my work in the forum.

Whichever makes you happy......
 
Quick question if I was to remove pin 7 I believe the illumination ground would that also disable the gauge on illumination?
 
45acpJr said:
Quick question if I was to remove pin 7 I believe the illumination ground would that also disable the gauge on illumination?
Click to expand...

Yep, that would kill all illumination. I don't see a way to make the lights work correctly without going into the switch.
I have seen these type switches before, but have never dug into one. They are configurable, so it might be possible.
It looks like they are designed to be taken apart at least partially.
If all else failed, you could probably kill the "power on" LED, and leave the illumination one on.
 
And honestly they don't bother me being on you really have to look for them to them on, do they draw enough to drain a battery?
 
Well, any drain will eventually kill a battery. It depends on how much and how long. If you let it sit for weeks, you might have a problem. DD you would never notice.

In this case, the normal draw is 20ma. Which is not much, but would be noticeable eventually.
It would take 50 hours to draw down 1 amp-hour of capacity, unless I dropped a decimal point somewhere.
Of course, that is per light.
50 lights would draw an amp-hour per hour and be a definite problem......

Depending on the size of your battery, an amp-hour is somewhere around 1% of its capacity.

BUT, in this case, even those numbers are wrong, in your favor. That 20ma is for full light.
Your "power on" lights are in series with whatever the load is. Which is why they are so dim.
Therefore, they are drawing way less than the rated 20ma. LEDs are fairly efficient, so they will light up at very low currents.
You would have to measure it with a meter, but I bet they are drawing less than 5ma.
So, unless you have a huge number of them, I doubt they are going to be a problem.
But the faint glow would bug me to no end at night. Not because they were interfering with anything, just because they were not supposed to be doing that.

Just for fun, I did a search on that switch number I dreamed up. Looks like its available in 4 weeks for about $13.91.
Relay is faster and probably cheaper.
Do you see how to use a relay? I can paint up a wiring diagram if you need one. Or just figure out the terminal numbers and what wires go to each.
 
I think I can handle the relay, I bought some in bulk off amazon for just an occasion, not to say I won't screw it up and post here again but you have been way helpful and I appreciate it. I told Ryoken the same thing since he spent a lot of time helping me with my dash wiring you should start a 900 number service and charge for this advice
 
you should start a 900 number service and charge for this advice
Click to expand...

Never work in my case. They would pay me what I'm worth, and I would wind up owing money.......
 
Do like you said and switch the ground with a relay using the 12v switch hot to trigger it.

I ran into this exact same problem a couple years ago. I tried to wire a radio memory wire on a vette that bypassed the battery disconnect switch. It did the exact same thing, put power to circuits that should have been dead. I'm no electrical engineer and I chocked it up to some sort of electrical law I know nothing about so I scrapped the idea.
 
Atomism thanks for that reply I just realized that I am going to running an acr and two remote battery solenoids. Those leds wind be getting powered once the solenoids are in . But I do need to run a new constant to my stereo as well
 
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