85mudblazin
1/2 ton status
thats why you use a pretty big area plate on the bottom of each tube, unless you have a rusty floor you are not going to push throught it very easy with a floor plate on it.
CK5
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roll cage
- Thread starter big blazin sc
- Start date
85mudblazin
1/2 ton status
most of the plates that are used are 1/8" thick and for the plates most of the ones I have seen are prolly about 5"x7"
84_Chevy_K10
Banned
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A cage tied into the frame with fatigue the frame for one, due to stress risers. It's also going to fatigue the cage, potentially to the point of failure when you need it most.
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Tim please don't take this the wrong way I am just trying to better understand your reasoning behind this. If the roll cage is not tied to any thing than what good is it? Don't you need the cage tied to the frame for support? If it is tied to the body won't it basicaly push through the body when rolled thus making your roll cage just for looks and not practicality? If it's not tied to the frame what would you tie it into to give it support. As I stated above I am not trying to give you flak for this but am trying to get a better understanding of how I should build my cage?
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Read rene's opinion on this. Even if he rolled his rig violently there would never be more force than two digits on the floor. This is the whole idea of triangulation and building a good cage.
Keeping any cage design from failing is about engineering and proper construction, not about reinforcing the mounting points to the frame.
A cage tied into the frame with fatigue the frame for one, due to stress risers. It's also going to fatigue the cage, potentially to the point of failure when you need it most.
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Tim please don't take this the wrong way I am just trying to better understand your reasoning behind this. If the roll cage is not tied to any thing than what good is it? Don't you need the cage tied to the frame for support? If it is tied to the body won't it basicaly push through the body when rolled thus making your roll cage just for looks and not practicality? If it's not tied to the frame what would you tie it into to give it support. As I stated above I am not trying to give you flak for this but am trying to get a better understanding of how I should build my cage?
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Read rene's opinion on this. Even if he rolled his rig violently there would never be more force than two digits on the floor. This is the whole idea of triangulation and building a good cage.
Keeping any cage design from failing is about engineering and proper construction, not about reinforcing the mounting points to the frame.
I used 1/4" plates, and made them as wide/long as they could be. They were roughly 6" wide by 8" long.
Underbody plates are just as important. You'll have 2 major forces on the mounting points of a cage. Compression and Tension.
The top plates everyone is mentioning help with compression. The bottom/underbody plates are for tension stresses. Cause nuts/washers are simply not enough surface area to depend on.
Underbody plates are just as important. You'll have 2 major forces on the mounting points of a cage. Compression and Tension.
The top plates everyone is mentioning help with compression. The bottom/underbody plates are for tension stresses. Cause nuts/washers are simply not enough surface area to depend on.
Poohbair
1/2 ton status
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thats why you use a pretty big area plate on the bottom of each tube, unless you have a rusty floor you are not going to push throught it very easy with a floor plate on it.
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I have a cage, mounted to a semi-rusty floor, and I have rolled it... The cage did not even start to push a dent in the floor, let alone punch the plate all the way thru...
thats why you use a pretty big area plate on the bottom of each tube, unless you have a rusty floor you are not going to push throught it very easy with a floor plate on it.
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I have a cage, mounted to a semi-rusty floor, and I have rolled it... The cage did not even start to push a dent in the floor, let alone punch the plate all the way thru...
aussie
Registered Member
Ive been building and racing cars for 15 years and am about to finish an aeronautical engineering degree and I belly laugh /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif at anyone who ties their 'safety cage' to their frame.
This is not an instance where you should try and kill two birds with one stone...address the flex issue and your safety separately if you want to do it right.
The sad thing is when you really, really need to know if it will hold up (Ive been there /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif) it'll be too late. You can get away with it for years with no visible signs of work hardening until, and I hope it never happens to anyone, you set forces in motion that are about to test the integrity of your protection 'system'.
The best cage will support you, your seat, your belts and belt mounts...unfortunately a lot people shy away from this total approach cause its just to hard.
Remember its a 'cage', that includes the floor side too, run bars on the floor, side to side and front to back. Across the firewall. Then anchor it sensibly to the tub.
Dont use your safety cage for anything but your safety. Thats its job, it should have no 'secondary duties'.
/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif
This is not an instance where you should try and kill two birds with one stone...address the flex issue and your safety separately if you want to do it right.
The sad thing is when you really, really need to know if it will hold up (Ive been there /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif) it'll be too late. You can get away with it for years with no visible signs of work hardening until, and I hope it never happens to anyone, you set forces in motion that are about to test the integrity of your protection 'system'.
The best cage will support you, your seat, your belts and belt mounts...unfortunately a lot people shy away from this total approach cause its just to hard.
Remember its a 'cage', that includes the floor side too, run bars on the floor, side to side and front to back. Across the firewall. Then anchor it sensibly to the tub.
Dont use your safety cage for anything but your safety. Thats its job, it should have no 'secondary duties'.
/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I've sworn off these discussions, but it sure is nice to see people are actually thinking about this instead of blindly following the "IT HAS TO BE TIED TO THE FRAME!" crowd. Tim, Rene, ausie and others have made every point I would add, so I'll just leave it at that. <bow>
I've sworn off these discussions, but it sure is nice to see people are actually thinking about this instead of blindly following the "IT HAS TO BE TIED TO THE FRAME!" crowd. Tim, Rene, ausie and others have made every point I would add, so I'll just leave it at that. <bow>
Well thanks for the info I wasn't trying to debate or piss anyone off I just wanted to understand why you shouldn't tie the cage to the frame. Oh FYI next week I will not be welding my cage to the frame. Thanks for everyone'e input.
Shane
Shane
DesertDueler
1/2 ton status
NHRA requires any vehicle with a full frame(Chevelle, GTO, trucks, etc) to be tied to the frame. Unibody cars can be welded or bolded to the floor(camaro, mustang, etc). I build racecar cages for extra $$. That being said, when I had my Jimmy, I built a family cage, and bolted it to the floor. The reason was I wasnt planing on high speed rolls, and if I was in a violent rollover, I would want the body to rip apart from the frame, and leave me in the body which is fully caged.
Aquaman
1/2 ton status
I would like to have a cage that served double duty. I'd like to have it all tied into a boxed frame, and have the sliders, tube bumpers, etc tied into it aswell. If it rolls, turn it back over, pick up your trash, and commense wheeling... that is ideal IMHO
