Seized engine diagnosis

[dremu]

It would appear that my most recent failure to make it to BlazerBash was in part caused by my tow rig motor's lack of desire to spin.

Symptom: The starter (reman, about six months ago) tries very hard to crank, I can hear the solenoid click engaging, but no spin. It also makes a humming noise saying to me that it's TRYING, but no go. There was an amazing overheat on some hills and the wife didn't notice the temp gauge ... so she barfed coolant something fierce and we pulled off. I had the trucks towed back.

So, diagnosis: I've removed the belts from all the accessories: alternator, power steering pump, and water pump. All spin freely, so they're not seized, i.e. they're not what's stopping things.

The starter still won't crank the motor. Batteries are both fairly new and have ~12.5V on them before this, freshly charged.

I am inclined to suspect that Karnak The Invincible sees a motor rebuild in my future. I first have to get her out of the street, into my yard (which involves going uphill, grr) and then I'll be able to tear into her more.

Should any of y'all have suggestions -- yank the starter? try to turn the flywheel by hand? -- I'll take them. Also any doom-sayers who can say for sure, yep, my engine has become one very solid boat anchor will be listened to, as then I just winch the thing up the driveway and stop playing with it.

-- A

 

[pauly383]

Socket on crank ( manual in neutral or clutch in , auto is all neutral when off ) breaker on socket , try to turn it by hand .

 

[NoReGrEtS]

Socket on crank ( manual in neutral or clutch in , auto is all neutral when off ) breaker on socket , try to turn it by hand .

also pull all the spark plugs it would make it easer ( if it isn't locked up)

 

[dremu]

also pull all the spark plugs it would make it easer ( if it isn't locked up)

Blecht. Fun to do in the street

Okay, I'll give it a roll. If it does spin, I presume the issue is with the starter, then? While I hate bench-pressing a 40# football, I'd rather do that then hafta spring for a new bigblock...

-- A

 

[dremu]

Okay ... she refuses to turn AT all, so she's frozen, yeah? Time to pull the motor?

-- A

 

[tRustyK5]

i'd say yes. It's gonna be a bizzatch to tear down too...

Rene

 

[dremu]

i'd say yes. It's gonna be a bizzatch to tear down too...

Rene

Eh? This is the sixpack... bigblock, '74, fairly devoid of "stuff". Remove the hood, radiator, maybe the front clip ... okay, yeah, it's sounding like work. But it's gonna be MORE hassle to get that thing up the driveway and around the tight corner ... even winching the old girl.

Do you know how much crate 454's are though? I paid like $1500 for a Goodwrench crate 350 for my K5 ... but big blocks are apparently made of freakin' platinum I may go get me a wrecked Dodge and put in a Cummins or something.

-- A

 

[73k5blazer]

That sucks.
Double because you didn't make it BB. But kudos for trying.

$4800 for the cheapest crate BB from GM. Not horrible considering what you get though, 425hp, almost 500ft/lbs torque at just 3200, over 400ftlbs starting at 1500!

 

[dremu]

That sucks.
Double because you didn't make it BB. But kudos for trying.

$4800 for the cheapest crate BB from GM. Not horrible considering what you get though

Well, that's better than the seven grand I'd priced 'em at. For that I can get a used Ram with a turbo Cummins and do the swap.

Five grand ... christ, still a lot of money, but.

-- A

 

[pauly383]

i'd say yes. It's gonna be a bizzatch to tear down too...

Rene

Not neccessarily . I tore a 402 down with a bad bearing . Just put it in the stand , pop heads off , pull balancer , flip over , unbolt broken crap

 

[BadBob]

$4800 for the cheapest crate BB from GM. Not horrible considering what you get though, 425hp, almost 500ft/lbs torque at just 3200, over 400ftlbs starting at 1500!

That's the cheapest GM Performance Parts big block, you can get the 74-93 Goodwrench crate engine for $3800.

 

[tRustyK5]

Not neccessarily . I tore a 402 down with a bad bearing . Just put it in the stand , pop heads off , pull balancer , flip over , unbolt broken crap

Yeah, it really depends on how it seized. The fact it overheated bad enough to seize makes me thing severely scored cylinder walls (black death) which could make getting the slugs out a bit of a chore. Mind you, if Aaron goes for a crate none of that matters...

Rene

 

[4X4HIGH]

You could also drop it off at my shop and i could rebuild it for alot less than $4,000. Without seeing what's broke or damaged i'd bet around $2500 to rebuild your engine.

 

[73k5blazer]

Ahhh..yeah, your right, I forgot about the "Goodwrench replacment motors". I was just looking at the performance parts ones.
THey are pretty bare bones though, no balancer, intake, water pump, flywheel/flexplate..etc

 

[dremu]

You could also drop it off at my shop and i could rebuild it for alot less than $4,000. Without seeing what's broke or damaged i'd bet around $2500 to rebuild your engine.

You were on my list of people to check with -- gotta love having local folks!

Question of course is whether it's worthwhile rebuilding this one, or if the block is cracked or something I'd just go with the crate... which of course we won't know 'till it comes out. I am suspicious of the heads, anyway, as one of the rockers had sheared itself last year, and the dang thing is just oooold ::shrug::

Anyway, I'm still a bit pissed at the thing, so gimme a month or rwo to winch the thing into the yard and get up the energy to WANT to touch it =)) ... and we'll see.

Thanks all!

-- A

 

[dremu]

Ahhh..yeah, your right, I forgot about the "Goodwrench replacment motors". I was just looking at the performance parts ones.
THey are pretty bare bones though, no balancer, intake, water pump, flywheel/flexplate..etc

Well, the PITA is that I've replaced water pump, alternator, radiator, etc etc etc all within the last few thousand miles... basically all that's left is carb, engine, tranny... and you bet your buns when the engine's out that tranny is coming out too, gonna get a going-over

-- A

 

[1979jimmy350]

you might want to try some pb blaster in the spark plug holes then try and turn it over maby a ring got stuck becasue of rust, was the truck sitting for a long time? If this does not help you might even just want to pull the oil pan while its still in the truck and see if its a lower end bearing that could bb replaced pretty easy as long as the crank is not to bad

 

[dremu]

you might want to try some pb blaster in the spark plug holes then try and turn it over maby a ring got stuck becasue of rust, was the truck sitting for a long time? If this does not help you might even just want to pull the oil pan while its still in the truck and see if its a lower end bearing that could bb replaced pretty easy as long as the crank is not to bad

Well, the truck's seen irregular use over the last, heh, two years and change that I've had it. And it seized whilst in motion, so I don't think it rusted shut

Yeah, I may pull the pan and take a look ... but the damn thing has always worried me, so this may just be an excuse to redo it right

-- A

 

[beater_k20]

disassembling an engine that has spun rod bearings (most commonly the rods sieze way before the mains do) isnt really that bad, providing the offending rod(s) are in a position where you can get to the bolts. my 355 i build in HS, and the L31 i've got in the garage both had spun #1 and #2 rod bearings, loosen the cap, and they'd turn over. i'd imagine if it were a main bearing, you could achieve the same results by loosening the main bolts on all 5 caps.

 

[4X4HIGH]

A major overheat can cause the pistons to swell and grab the cylinder walls and sieze the engine. Usually once cooled down the engine will turn over once again but irreversible damage has occured at that point and the engine would need a rebuild regardless. Rarely does a spun rod or main bearing sieze and engine so it can't be turned over.