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Selectable front lockers

Joel Wilson

Joel Wilson

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I get a chance to play in the mud at work quite a bit and during the summer I am in the creek quite a bit having to fix who knows what. So I do mostly mud, sand, and sandy creek bottom stuff.

That being said, I have a 12 bolt rear with stock Eaton limited slip, open Dana 44 front, 3.73 gears, running 35s, TH350 and roughly 415-425hp SBC 400. NP203 with Mile Marker part time kit and Warn hubs. I am heavy with the winch, dual batts, tools, etc at right around 6400 lbs.

I don't have to drive very far to work so would I be alight by going with a bit stiffer limited slip in the rear and a selectable locker in the front? The scrapers I run at work have a button on the floor for a air diff lock which is a life saver depending on tire and creek conditions. Has anyone done a floor mounted switch like that? My transfer case seems to operate better keeping the hubs locked all the time and just keep the transfer case in 2wd. Running without the hubs locked gives me more power on the top end but it seems to dry out some bearings in the T case or something cause after doing that, its harder to get into 4wd, so I just keep the hubs locked. So would a limited slip in the front be good? Maybe a selectable locker?

Thanks in advance

Joel
norcal
 
My opinion is that your limited slip may need to go before considering a front traction aid of any sort.

Cars generally get away with a limited slip diff because they are light and both wheels generally have pretty even traction. A heavy truck with questionable traction on either tire is potentially slipping the clutches.

Are you having problems you need to overcome? I don't think a front traction aid is a bad idea, just think the rear is potentially not up to par.

Mud I'm guessing you need wheel spin, so gov-lock is out (even then I'd only consider it in a 14sf or ff, no way a 10 bolt) but a selectable would seem to fit the bill there.
 
Joel Wilson said:
I get a chance to play in the mud at work quite a bit and during the summer I am in the creek quite a bit having to fix who knows what. So I do mostly mud, sand, and sandy creek bottom stuff.

That being said, I have a 12 bolt rear with stock Eaton limited slip, open Dana 44 front, 3.73 gears, running 35s, TH350 and roughly 415-425hp SBC 400. NP203 with Mile Marker part time kit and Warn hubs. I am heavy with the winch, dual batts, tools, etc at right around 6400 lbs.

I don't have to drive very far to work so would I be alight by going with a bit stiffer limited slip in the rear and a selectable locker in the front? The scrapers I run at work have a button on the floor for a air diff lock which is a life saver depending on tire and creek conditions. Has anyone done a floor mounted switch like that? My transfer case seems to operate better keeping the hubs locked all the time and just keep the transfer case in 2wd. Running without the hubs locked gives me more power on the top end but it seems to dry out some bearings in the T case or something cause after doing that, its harder to get into 4wd, so I just keep the hubs locked. So would a limited slip in the front be good? Maybe a selectable locker?

Thanks in advance

Joel
norcal
Click to expand...
Do you have a budget?

As for the idea of a floor switch, can't think of any reason why not


In terms of the front, I've used both an ARB (my first choice in selectable, not cheap) and also a Dana Powr Lok. The Powr Lok is a clutch type with the benefit of Belleville spring pressure as opposed to a standard LSD

https://www.nitro-gear.com/PowerLock-Complete-Posi-for-Dana-44-p/pld44-3-30.htm
 
400+hp, 35"s, a D44, and a locked axle spells broken chit. May be fine if it's always soft stuff. But if you were playing around and one wheel caught good traction it could end badly for your front diff.
Maybe just do a 6 lug SF 14b rear with a stock gov loc. Couple hundred bucks in the junk yard and an afternoon worth of work. Then leave the front as is.

Mine are tons, but I have a gov loc rear and open front with 35"s and have yet to wish for more traction in mud or snow.
 
dyeager535 said:
My opinion is that your limited slip may need to go before considering a front traction aid of any sort.

Cars generally get away with a limited slip diff because they are light and both wheels generally have pretty even traction. A heavy truck with questionable traction on either tire is potentially slipping the clutches.

Are you having problems you need to overcome? I don't think a front traction aid is a bad idea, just think the rear is potentially not up to par.

Mud I'm guessing you need wheel spin, so gov-lock is out (even then I'd only consider it in a 14sf or ff, no way a 10 bolt) but a selectable would seem to fit the bill there.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, the truck isn't getting stuck, which is kind of a bummer sometimes. Even with the G80 limited slip (I found the glove box option placard). Both rear tires seem to spin at about the same time so I *think* it's working okay. Put it in 4 loc and she goes straight with equal amounts of dirt and mud on rear tires and more mud and dirt on right front which is all to be expected.

I'm okay with putting a new limited slip or locker in the rear, although I would like to not have to reset the gears. I'm not getting stuck right now but I know what I would like to do and it is more agressive than what I am doing now and its in an area with limited contact. And if I have to upgrade axle shafts to go with a locker or LSD up front, or start to look at a D60 and Corp 14 in the rear which means new rims among other things. Just making sure I don't go too far down a rabbit hole money wise when there was a cheaper way.

Thanks
Joel
norcal
 
G80 is NOT a limited slip. Lol. That's the gov loc. It pretty much locks solid.
 
shady said:
400+hp, 35"s, a D44, and a locked axle spells broken chit. May be fine if it's always soft stuff. But if you were playing around and one wheel caught good traction it could end badly for your front diff.
Maybe just do a 6 lug SF 14b rear with a stock gov loc. Couple hundred bucks in the junk yard and an afternoon worth of work. Then leave the front as is.

Mine are tons, but I have a gov loc rear and open front with 35"s and have yet to wish for more traction in mud or snow.
Click to expand...
I like the idea of a 14b rear with 6 lugs. No need to buy new rims and remount the tires. Right now, this thing doesn't get stuck, it just kinda floats on top of the material in the creek or maybe goes down a couple inches. Course, I'm easy on the throttle most of the time too unless I'm feeling frisky at the mud holes at the plant...

Joel
norcal
 
Joel Wilson said:
I like the idea of a 14b rear with 6 lugs. No need to buy new rims and remount the tires. Right now, this thing doesn't get stuck, it just kinda floats on top of the material in the creek or maybe goes down a couple inches. Course, I'm easy on the throttle most of the time too unless I'm feeling frisky at the mud holes at the plant...

Joel
norcal
Click to expand...
This statement makes me think that the Power loc would be a great addition to the front axle. With all of the weight up front, something soft on engagement would be perfect. I have been in the mountains a few times where more pull from the front axle would have been better.
 
Don't really hear much about the gov-lock in the 12 bolts, either they are pretty uncommon, or they just don't break like the 10 bolt variants. Eaton is calling it the mlocker now btw.

Personally I think the gov-lock is the best *compromise* out there. Seamless on the road, and predictable off. Durability, particularly in the 10 bolt, is it's main downside, but it also unlocks at higher wheel speed, which can obviously be a hindrance when you need wheel speed and both wheels to still do work.

If it's working properly, short of a true locker or spool, you won't get "better" traction. If it hasn't caused issues yet, I don't see a reason to pull it. I might keep my eyes open for a 14sf though if you plan to push it harder. Just in case.

I'm tempted to go with a true-trac or similar helical gear front diff, as I'd like to just experience what it's like with the front end doing a bit more work. Even those I've heard tends to break front shafts under odd conditions, and they should be about the easiest on shafts there is, short of open or maybe a really weak clutch type LSD. Only a couple of times in snow have I needed the front to try a bit harder. Good tires and keeping wheel speed where the gov lock works really keeps me from even needing 4wd for most conditions I find myself in, and I like that margin of knowing I've still got more traction on tap. But admittedly, I'm not doing any sort of technical stuff either.
 
I would run either a Trutrac like stated or do an ARB or an E-locker in the front, this way you KNOW when it's going to be engaged and you're not guessing whether or not you're going to get traction. If you want pricing on either of those, PM me and I can shoot you a quote.
 
The gov loc dosen't disengage at higher wheel speed.

It won't ENGAGE at higher wheel speed.
If it locks, it'll stay locked regardless of wheel speed until it's at rest again.
 
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Only when wheel slip is over. Trust me, they do not unlock over 20 when your still spinning. It prevents it from locking over 20. It doesn't unlock it if it's already locked before 20. If they did they're be pretty much useless for anything but that boat ramp in the video.

If your going up the trail, it starts spinning, locks up, and you stay in the gas, you can spin your wheels fully locked at 80 if you want. It will unlock when you get through it and let off the gas. Sometimes not even then for a while.

If your driving down the highway at 55 and hit ice with one wheel, no it will not engage.
 
shady said:
Only when wheel slip is over. Trust me, they do not unlock over 20 when your still spinning. It prevents it from locking over 20. It doesn't unlock it if it's already locked before 20. If they did they're be pretty much useless for anything but that boat ramp in the video.

If your going up the trail, it starts spinning, locks up, and you stay in the gas, you can spin your wheels fully locked at 80 if you want. It will unlock when you get through it and let off the gas. Sometimes not even then for a while.

If your driving down the highway at 55 and hit ice with one wheel, no it will not engage.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with the above. If the Gov-lock is already locked it will stay locked regardless of the wheel speed. But if you are going over 20 mph and it's not locked, it will not suddenly lock up on you...part of the reason is so you don't get a weird handling quirk at higher speeds if it locked (i.e. Detroit locker) and the other reason is if the tires are spinning wildly you are pretty much guaranteed to grenade it if it locks at those speeds. I've had Gov-locks in several vehicles over the years. The one in an old S-10 Blazer with over 100k miles worked great and instantly, and the one in an '03 2500HD I bought new always worked great. The one in my '90 K5 that I bought with under 50k on the clock never worked that great.

Anyway back to the original question. Adding a traction device to the front usually makes a much bigger difference than changing the rear out, especially since the OP states that both rear tires appear to be spinning. Having one front tire being dead weight and not spinning is just like having an anchor. If they only need 4wd when truly off-road (versus driving on snowy highways) I would seriously consider a drop-in locker like a Lock-Right. Cheap and easy to install. He could also leave the hubs locked in with no drawbacks. Not a big fan of the Powerloc in the front, and you wouldn't be able to leave the hubs locked in as it will give you some feedback even in 2wd. You can't feel a Lock-Right in 2wd even with the hubs locked in because it will just freewheel with no power going in to it through the driveshaft. And you don't need a front D60 with 35" tires. Sure, you could break a D44 front on 35's with the big power if you beat on it really hard but for reasonable driving it will hold up okay.
 
After today, I am going to seriously start looking at something for the front. That Lock Rite will most likely be at the top of the list.

I was down in the creek driving around basically just floating on the surface. Nothing spectacular. 4 hi with hubs locked. Sandy gravel, no cobble. Basically 2.5" down to sand. Decided to go into a spot that was loose sand, pea gravel, and 3/4". This area is known to sink anything with wheels if you're not careful. I know. I almost buried my scraper 2 years running. So I was doing okay until I turned a semi hard right and felt one of the front tires start to plow. Not dig, just plow. I couldn't feel the back tires spinning and I wasn't hard on the throttle, maybe 1500 rpm cause back in the nether regions of my mind I knew if I mashed it, she would have gone to the frame. Granted there was a 980c nearby...so I just straightened the wheels, backed up, turned an easy right and went back to the stockpile and then the plant. I had fun, the Jimmy got to stretch her legs a bit but that one legger front doesnt sit well when I have nothing to winch to. I won't always have a 980 ir bigger to pull me out.

Thanks for the help.
Joel
Norcal
 
Found this video while digging around based on this post. Pretty neat being able to select front or rear independently, and demonstrate how the rig performs front, rear, and both axles locked.
 
dad wheeling.jpg

years ago my dad (on the left) went wheeling with me and I let him use my TJ. it has air lockers front and rear, I kept telling him on Saturday to lock both but he kept telling me he was doing just fine with the rear locked. Sunday we went out again wheeling and I went to check on him and he told me "I see what you mean about locking the front also, I feel like I have a lot more control."

for what it is worth
 
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