Sm465 clutch fork issues

[HawK5]

Hey guys,
Just swapped in the new motor, while we were in there we took the clutch fork off for some clean up and checking of the throw out bearing and greasing as needed. We got it all back together and the clutch pedal didn’t feel right, there kind of click on the pedal and the disengagement happens at the very begin of pushing the clutch in. I take it for a quick spin and luckily as I’m backing in the driveway the clutch goes to floor and engages in reverse and I have to slam on the breaks and shut it off before I back into my travel trailer. Upon further inspection it appears the clutch fork is to far outboard, I think one of the metal spring tabs on the backside of the clutch fork was either never fully seated or popped off. I’m pretty sure the fork is now off of the throw bearing.. is there way to fix this without pulling the tranny or motor? I tried pulling the clutch fork out and it won’t budge..
The adjustable rod that goes from the z bar to the clutch fork has a bit of a downward too, should that be level with the clutch fork?

 

[Bent77]

Yes, the linkage off the Z bar to the clutch is almost straight. So if it’s cattyWompus, then you probably have that detent for the fork not lined up.

Chock the wheels and then disassemble all the clutch linkage, then reach inside to see if you can realign the fork. If you can make sure that you have the throw out bearing lined up where it should be otherwise it won’t return.

 

[1-ton]

The clutch fork may have popped off the ball stud it rides on.

 

[HawK5]

Yeah the indent in the back of the fork where the ball stud rides can be seen and felt outboard of the stud, the problem is I can’t push it back in, I assume the fork has come off the throw out bearing. But I’m not sure how to get the fork lined up with the grooves in the throw out bearing. Maybe I need to pull it further out and just hope I can get them lined up.

 

[HawK5]

I took pictures when we pulled the old motor out and the clutch fork was behind the throw out bearing, when we put it back together we put fork in the grooves on the throw out bearing.. I wonder if that’s part of the problem

 

[Bent77]

 

[HawK5]

Below are pictures from when I pulled the motor out, I’m not saying it was installed correctly then, but it looks like the fork is completely behind the throw out bearing.. and it’s possible we re-installed it incorrectly and got those little tabs in the wrong spot.. but it’s weird that if it was totally behind it to begin with, it would work without any known issues.. and would having those little spring tabs installed incorrectly cause it to pop off? It appears if it did pop off there’s no way to get it back on without pulling the tranny tho regardless.. agreed?

 

[HawK5]

I was able to use my bore scope to see exactly what is going on. The top side of the fork has gotten up and over the top side of the bearing. How to reset it without pulling the tranny.. I have no clue, any ideas are welcome. I can’t pull the fork outboard as the spring clip on the ball fork is bottomed out, I can’t push it inboard as the fork is jammed in the throw out bearing, when I put it forward or back the throw out bearing just moves with it. I tried pulling back and forth and down and up angles with little to no movement between the fork and bearing. I tried using a flat blade screw driver between the bearing and top of the fork.. anything else to try before I start pulling the transmission?

 

[tarussell]

Really good pics from the scope but ya’ know what ya’ gotta do…

 

[HawK5]

ok I gotta pull the trans, I’m at peace with that, but I’m not convinced I know what caused this to begin with.. and so im not convinced it won’t happen again.. the bottom side of the fork looks installed correctly, so I’m 98% sure the top was too. And if it wasn’t, how would that effect it from popping off in the forward direction?
Do you guys think the fork or throw out bearing are the correct parts? It sounds like there’s two different styles (long/short) of throw out bearings.. also with the adjustable rod that connect the z bar to the fork out, I hung the z bar arm to straight up and down, that I would achieve with an adjustable upper clutch pedal arm, and it still had somewhat of downward angle on the fork..

 

[Wes Harden]

Looks to me like that spring clip holding the fork to the pivot is stretched outta shape. I do believe the rod that pressed on the fork should be parallel to the movement of the fork. If I understand yours was at an angle down toward the fork, this just might have contributed to problem

 

[Bent77]

And there are 3 throw out bearings!

 

[HawK5]

And there are 3 throw out bearings!

Crap, yeah I just looked on summit, and between all of the brands there is 9 listed for my vehicle. Unfortunately I’m not convinced the one I have is right, so the ‘ol look at what you have and match it doesn’t inspire confidence.. you guys have any idea how to figure out which one I need? Is there different forms? Different input shaft diameters perhaps?

 

[Bent77]

Height

Lay it on the bearing surface and measure the height down through the bore. My guess is the one you have is too short. (Could be also an adjustment issue

Typically the bearing exits when the fork goes too far forward. Essentially, the fork should never travel forward to engage the fingers at an angle or travel distance greater that the back throw

If the front edge that holds the bearing is going way past the centerline, the throwout bearing will likely jump off

 

[tarussell]

Crap, yeah I just looked on summit, and between all of the brands there is 9 listed for my vehicle. Unfortunately I’m not convinced the one I have is right, so the ‘ol look at what you have and match it doesn’t inspire confidence.. you guys have any idea how to figure out which one I need? Is there different forms? Different input shaft diameters perhaps?

The SM/CH-465 only comes in two flavors as far as the input shaft goes and that’s the standard 1-1/8” 10-spline shaft ( that is what you have and is for all our squares ) and the other is an H.D. version that has a 1-1/2” 10-spline shaft that is also longer in length.

If in doubt just get a new fork and T.O.B. combo listed for your application and be done with the guess work.

 

[HawK5]

Dropped the tranny, the retaining springs for the clutch fork are bent way out of shape, I think this was caused by improper adjustment of the adjustable rod between the bell crank and fork. I basically had the the throw out bearing riding on the clutch fingers with the pedal all the way up, which had the clutch disengaging right at the top of the pedal, and then over driving the throw out bearing, which I believe caused undue stress on the retainer spring. Anyhow I ordered a new bearing and fork, the bearing is one of the plastic types, its busted on the back as you can see, but it was like that from the beginning so I don’t think it was a factor, but just decide to replace it with an all metal, and figured since it’s apart might as well replace it now.

 

[nvrenuf]

So the collar on the t/o bearing is plastic? I had no idea that was a thing.

@tarussell can vouch for me that I SUCK at t/o bearings. Way back, I put one on a fork wrong and it died in just a few miles (in the middle of a swamp). I almost hurt a fancy dual disc clutch.

 

[tarussell]

So the collar on the t/o bearing is plastic? I had no idea that was a thing.

@tarussell can vouch for me that I SUCK at t/o bearings. Way back, I put one on a fork wrong and it died in just a few miles (in the middle of a swamp). I almost hurt a fancy dual disc clutch.

That’s alright we still made it through the day w/o using the clutch pedal - a skill set that is quickly fading away on these folks that don’t understand what the third pedal is for…

You were just excited about having a badass Borg-n-Beck style dual-disc assembly behind that NASTY big-block in your truck - even Charley Daniels missed a note on the fiddle every now and then.