SM465 Shifter Locked Up! HELP!

[manchildau65]

Pulled tranny out of truck b/c I couldn't shift into reverse, third, or fourth. Took the top cover off and saw that something in the linkage didn't look right, so I pulled a known good top cover off and replaced it on the tranny (all gears/everything looked fine). I tested the shift pattern (including reverse) before putting the tranny back in the truck, everything felt fine...

Put tranny in truck, hooked up clutch, and went to verfiy shift pattern and can't find any gears. If I have someon push the clutch in, I can turn the output yoke and everything spins free internally.

Did I miss something obvious? any suggestions? trying to get the truck together to keep the peace with the wife...

 

[nvrenuf]

What position was the shifter in when you put the top cover back on the transmission? If it wasn't roughly half way between neutral and reverse the forks are probably in the wrong position(s).

 

[chulisohombre]

What position was the shifter in when you put the top cover back on the transmission? If it wasn't roughly half way between neutral and reverse the forks are probably in the wrong position(s).

yep exactly what he said.had to be put in the same way to realign the shift forks.i dont know if you can manually do it with out pulling the top cover again or not though.you may be able to pull the shift lever and push the gears and shift forks into place.someone else may know more than i.

 

[manchildau65]

Does it matter that the tranny I'm running is a round pattern from an 86 and the "top hat" that I'm using is from a 80?

Sounds like I've got to drop the tranny again and double verify the shift forks are correct... any way to verify so I don't put it back together and find out the hard way a third time?!?!?!

what a pain in the arse... I'm doing this on a driveway with two floor jacks and blocks of wood, waaah I know but it still stinks...

 

[tRustyK5]

Does your tranny tunnel unbolt? If so it's a lot easier than dropping the trans!

Take your shifter and start to put it in reverse, but don't go all the way. You want to be halfway shifted to reverse. That is the position the shifter needs to be in. Turn the top cover over so you can see approximately where the shift fork is, then manually slide the reverse collar inside the tranny to line up with that. As you drop the cover on, check the fork is engaging the collar and it should drop on nicely. bolt it down with two or three bolts and confirm you have 4 gears plus reverse on the shifter.

 

[manchildau65]

we did take and check 2-3 times before droping the cover. and even bolted 3-4 bolts down then checked 3-4 times and it shifted perfect.

only after install in the truck did we find this. but looks like we will be pulling the tranny/tcase again.

can we look threw the pto cover area with a mirror on a stick and light to see if the fork is on the reverse gear tho ? mabye this would save time and energy .

thanks sofar guys will see what we get sunday.

 

[Russell]

As mentioned by Rene, definitely pull the transmission tunnel cover instead of the transmission, if you can!

Much, much easier to do and you can pull the transmission top cover with it in the truck and the tunnel cover removed.

 

[sweetk30]

no cover to pull its a solid floor pan in his truck i know that.

 

[manchildau65]

I'm thinking about cutting out the tunnel and finding an older style cab with the bolt in doghouse to replace... anyone do this before? The truck is no show truck but I don't want to add more leaks and noises if I don't have to!

 

[chulisohombre]

yeah sounds like it didnt mesh correct when you put the cover back on.when you were checking it,could you spin the rear output and see the inout shaft spin?how did you know the gears were working.just sayin,something else might be amiss as well.there were a couple different top covers.one was cast steel and one was aluminum.im not sure how different the shift forks were underneith of it.i think the aluminum became the norm early 80s.if you didnt do the half way to reverse on both sides before putting the top on it wont shift the fork to change gears but will move the shift lever as if it is going into gear.it sucks that you have the solid floor.it is much easier to go through there if you can unbolt the housing.if i remember there was also a high hump and low hump tranny cover.you would have to measure and go to the junkyard to see if you could possible graft it in and work with your truck.

 

[manchildau65]

yeah, when it was out, I could turn the output shaft and everything would turn... I guess I should have ran it through all the gears while turning the output.

Could it be the way I'm sticking the shifter in? I figure that's gotta be lined up right if I'm able to lock it into place, right? (I had to line up the shift rails with a screwdriver in order to get it to go into the "shifter groove")

 

[chulisohombre]

Once the top cover is on you would center the shift forks to neutral and put the gear shifter into the center slot and lock down the collar on the shifter.it seems like I remember right if the top plate wasnt aligned on the trans correctly,it wouldnt have bolted down flush either.i had to put it in the reverse halfway position to get it off and back on to tighten it down.

 

[manchildau65]

That's the part that is confusing to me, it took a little jockeying but it slid right into place and all the cover screws are in place...

I'm just wondering if I don't have the gears misaligned on the shift forks or if the fork missed the "grooves" they were supposed to be on.

With the clutch in, I can spin the output shaft and hear gears moving internally... when the clutch is out, the tranny is engaged. I can't seem to shift in or out of any gears currently (meaning the shifter isn't doing anything).

The shifter just doesn't feel right either, typically you can feel it lock into gears, it just seems sloppy and has the same amount of play 360 degrees...

 

[82355]

i think the aluminum became the norm early 80s.

Nope. The aluminum covers are in the newer (1988+) body style pickups that still used the SM465. I have never seen an aluminum cover in a 1973-1987(1991) pickup.

Martin

 

[manchildau65]

I think you can still use them on the older style... I hear other than the weight advantage (wouldn't be a big driver when you're already driving a k30) the aluminum shift towers had a shorter throw. Not 100% sure on that though.

 

[sweetk30]

and the shifter hole is 4-5 back in relation to cast iron older style covers.

 

[chulisohombre]

Nope. The aluminum covers are in the newer (1988+) body style pickups that still used the SM465. I have never seen an aluminum cover in a 1973-1987(1991) pickup.

Martin

Well that solves that delima martin.ill remember that now.to manchild,can you pull the shifter and shift the trans manualy and then try to move the truck?then at least you know the top cover is shifting the forks inside.

 

[manchildau65]

Well, I cut a good size hole out of my cab floor to access the top of the tranny. To be honest, it looks pretty good, now I just need to figure out a good way to re-secure it and minimize the rattle / noise. I used a sawzall so it's a clean cut, I'm thinking I'll weld some securing "rails" to the cab and then bolt the cover back to them. All I know is that with this new access I created, it'll be a heck of a lot easier to get to bellhousing bolts, tranny and t-case.

(No membership right now, so I can't post pics...)

 

[manchildau65]

Oh-yeah, was able to pull tranny cover off and after the 8th try, the tranny shifts perfect. If anyone ever pulls the top cover, make sure to be half way in reverse and line the reverse gear fork groove up with the face of the largest gear with the face of the largest gear in the back...

 

[Fordum]

I've never put a floorboard back in, but I have had to replace the sheet metal after I cut an access hole into a lot of equipment.
This is one of the best ways I have done it.
Most of the time with my stuff, its just flat panels, so you might have to get a little creative.
Take a piece of flat steel, say 1.5 to 2 inches wide, maybe 1/2 inch thick.
NOTE: All the measurements are just off the top of my head. Adjust them to fit your reality.
Drill a series of 3/8 holes along one side of the hole. Slide the flat steel under the edge about halfway, and mark the holes on it.
Pull it out, drill and tap the holes.
The tapping is the key part. This lets you tighten the bolts from the top if they work loose, and makes removal easy.
Mount the pieces of the flat steel all the way around the hole.
Drill holes in the piece you are putting back on, place it on top, and mark, drill and tap the holes in the flat steel.
Make sure to get it positioned right, then mark a couple of the holes. Drill and tap them, then bolt the piece down before marking the rest of the holes.
Otherwise, it will shift as you mark some, and they will not line up.

Trust me, I know that will happen......

When you are done, you will have a setup that will not rattle unless it works loose, and can be easily tightened if it does.
DON'T try tightening it as you drive down the road to eliminate a rattle.
It will cause you more work after you run off the road.......

The flat steel underneath will seal the gap from dust and mud coming through, but a small amount of silicone rubber will make sure if you put some between the steel and the housing before the final assembly.

Its a lot more work than welding, but it lets you remove all the bracing if necessary later.
For most work, just taking the bolts out that hold the cover will be enough, but if you need more room, then the flat steel will unbolt also.

If you carefully space the bolts the exact same distance apart, it will look like a neat job and can actually look good.
If you don't like the "steampunk" look, then you can use countersunk Allen head screws.
You just have to countersink the holes in the flat steel slightly before you tap it.