some questions from a noob in the stereo department.

[chevyin]

interesting debate. I have always heard that underpowering a speaker would blow it, and i thought it was weird. Now I dont know exactly how everything works in a speaker, but i know enough combined with me taking physics in college right now to be able to say that chevyin is right about the heat being produced. There is no way that the large amounts of heat that are created in a speaker come from the movement of the cone and related parts. There isnt anything with enough friction to create that amount of heat. But, if you have signal/power (excuse my terms hadnt had electrical physics stuff yet), that will create alot of heat...why do hairdryers, heaters, anything that provides warmth pass power thru a wire? Resistance in the wire creates heat, and that is what is being dispersed by the vented pole piece, not the miniscule heat produced by the movement of the cone. Watt=joule/second, so while headroom is good, i think it would be bad to over power a speaker, that is, sending more energy thru it than it was meant to handle. More energy=more heat=bye bye speaker

That's it, essentially.

Keep in mind, 'headroom' does not mean 'overpowering' a speaker as alot of people think. It means having that power on tap, but never using it. Never using it. You may ask, why have it then. Theoretically, an amplifier that only has to work 50% as hard to produce the watts needed will create less distortion than one working 80-100%. In other words, buy a 1000 watt amp, adjust the gains so it only outputs (approx) 500 watts... this should represent a decrease in distortion over a 500 watt amp working at maximum. The trade off of course, is cost, and your ability to distinguish such small differences in thd.

People who make the 'incorrect gain setting' arguement for running an 'underpowered' amplifier fail to remember that someone who doesn't know any better and will adjust that small amp's gain until it clips... is just as likely to do it with an 'overpowered' amp. Ignorance is ignorance, and Ive witnessed precious little self control with noobs setting gain knobs.

And yes, in case there is any doubt, the heat generated is almost solely from current passing through the wire in the voice coil(s). Hopefully Hazy learned something from this thread.

 

[5280k5]

). Hopefully Hazy learned something from this thread.

I know I did, so thanks
That whole headroom thinking is kind of where my idea for the PPI pc4800 comes into play, probably won't need 200 watts a channel to drive my front stage and midbass but it's nice to have the extra available like you said Chevin.

P.S. Any recommendations for a reasonable priced($200-$300) front set of components? I was looking into some Rainbows but man they get pricey fast.

 

[chevyin]

I know I did, so thanks
That whole headroom thinking is kind of where my idea for the PPI pc4800 comes into play, probably won't need 200 watts a channel to drive my front stage and midbass but it's nice to have the extra available like you said Chevin.

P.S. Any recommendations for a reasonable priced($200-$300) front set of components? I was looking into some Rainbows but man they get pricey fast.

Lemme do some research and come up with some comp sets to recommend looking into. Its been awhile since I was pricing many comp sets, Im still trying to wedge in a set of horns I bought like 8 years ago (and some of you guys thought you were the king of procrastination... ha). I'll post some ideas in the next cpl days.

Rainbows are nice, but yes their good stuff is not cheap. Ive been hearing a few disturbing things about their customer service lately as well. But there's no arguing their performance is stellar.

Glad to help out bud... anytime.

 

[chevyin]

In the mean time 5280k5 look here...

http://www.woofersetc.com/

Briefly looking down their list Id say look into CDT, Alpine (Type R), Diamond, Focal, Image Dynamics, Infinity, MB Quart, Oz, Polk.. they all are well known for solid front-stage speakers.

I haven't ordered anything from woofersetc yet myself, but I'll be trying them out myself one of these days. I hear good things, and prices look good from what Ive looked at.

 

[5280k5]

Yeah, WoofersEtc. is cool. That's actually where I got the Jl Audio 6w0 8 ohms for my girls Camaro project.
They were actually one of the only people in the country to have them in stock. I hope they provide some good midbass, they cost almost as much as the 12" Type R's did.
I really did plan the front stage as well as I should have and don't have enough channels of amp to drive the fronts seperately(mids & tweets) and midbass off one 4 channel amp. Especially since I can't mix the 8 ohm JL's with any 4 ohm front stuff Oh, well I probably don't need to mess around with an active front setup in my first "real" system.
I've been thinking about trying some Focals or CDT's , they seem to get pretty good reviews.

 

[Hazy]

And yes, in case there is any doubt, the heat generated is almost solely from current passing through the wire in the voice coil(s). Hopefully Hazy learned something from this thread.

wow still on that huh? to bad thats still highly debated and have people on both sides. want to grow up a little?

i havn't learned anything but there are always other opinions out there, and multi ways to do the job.

btw woofersetc is good cause you can sometimes email them and ask for a better price. like RE Subs.

 

[chevyin]

wow still on that huh? to bad thats still highly debated and have people on both sides. want to grow up a little?

i havn't learned anything but there are always other opinions out there, and multi ways to do the job.

btw woofersetc is good cause you can sometimes email them and ask for a better price. like RE Subs.

You don't give up, do you? Is it so hard to admit you were wrong?

How a speaker generates heat is only debateable by people who do not know. That would be you, and you alone, in this thread.

Have a nice day.

 

[MrArmyAnt]

Not exactly sure what you are wanting to know about amplifiers. Its a wide topic, so I'll try posting a good link that go over the basics.

Amplifier classes: http://www.bcae1.com/ampclass.htm

The home page for this site is http://www.bcae1.com/ The Index is on the right, it will go over everything you should need to know to properly match a new sub and amp. If you have any questions, ask away.

What does that mean?

Underwatt? That's a new one on me. If you mean what I suspect you do, then I should tell you that you simply cannot 'blow' a speaker by underpowering it. Never, under any circumstances. Period. No speaker... let alone any one particular brand (JL).

MTX is known for alot of things, highly regarded SQ isn't one of them. But to each their own.

Actually high distortion does come form an amp jacked up - and is innefecient on the alternator - sounding like crap, resulting in many thinking it blown. So it doesn't sound as good, better to be overpowered and reduce the gain on the amp (you know most of the people here will jack it up - as much as they usually can.

So yes, underpowering at max volume can sound bad. but Ohms are the resistence of coils of wire, creating heat. Unless you have a super conductor at a very cool temperature (and invested a large fortune in one sub) heat will always be in any component with a wire. maybe not much, but still some. overpowering an amp puts more stress on the amp, again causing distortion, and idividual caps and capacitors to heat up, along with most metal to metal contacts - but it's not heating up the speaker because of that. heat is a direct product of the current and amps and crap passing through it. so lower power isn't going to heat it up the coil


Listen to chevyin's stuff guys, he knows it (says the EE major in more physics classes than should be allowed.)
Funny enough I just read the rest of your posts, and agree with them all)

Also, if that didn't make sence to anyone, I'm in the middle of finals and brain hurts. Deal with it. :-)

Also, there are people on both sides but go ask an EE in the field. Take their word for the gospel. There are certain forumlas to everythng, that rumors can't break. Same reason why many off brand speakers can sound just as good or better than JL, most are made in the same factory, using almost identical blue prints (if an engr owns the patent on a speaker, why not just change something or nothing and sell it to another mfr?)

Look at hand soaps - I know the manufacturer of dial. You can buy the same stuff, under its generic name for your own soap from them for a quarter of the price. It's the exact same. - this is mfr. (why did I go off on this random tangent? oh well I typed it, just ignore it.

 

[BadassBlaze]

its aight bout the tangents lol...finals are killer....im goin thru them too and my head hurts...I bow'd out of this a while back since chevyin seem to be manhandleing the arguement anyways lol

 

[MrArmyAnt]

Lol sorry bout that mate. Didn't see the date. I like throwing my opinion in everry now and then

 

[BadassBlaze]

hahaha me too...i for once kinda knew the physics behind what they were talkin about and knew at least that there was no way the cone movement made the majority of the heat lol....damn these finals why am i up this early again!!