Sound clip of my motor. Paging 4X4HIGH. *Update talked to the shop*

[4xcrazy]

OH, and i ended up having to re-adjust my lifters the final time, with a cold engine, loosening till there was slop in the rocker, tightening till 0-lash, then another 1/4 or hair more turn, all worked out fine, again, except this one problem one still continuing to bleed down.

I'm guessing the shop used some cheap China made lifters or something.

It's on my list to replace them soon, along with a full roller rocker arm setup as well.

 

[Silver84k5]

Talked to the shop who built the motor today, they heard the video, and he wants me to bring the engine down there. This will be the second time ive had this motor out. Two wheelin trips on this motor, i would guess less than 50 miles on the damn thing...


Im not a happy camper.

The dude on the phone started questioning me about timing, Total timing.

I dont know how to figure out total timing.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Talked to the shop who built the motor today, they heard the video, and he wants me to bring the engine down there. This will be the second time ive had this motor out. Two wheelin trips on this motor, i would guess less than 50 miles on the damn thing...


Im not a happy camper.

The dude on the phone started questioning me about timing, Total timing.

I dont know how to figure out total timing.

Total timing means what you set for initial, plus however much vacuum advance adds and also how much mechanical advance adds. All you really need to do is run the engine up to about 3000 RPM and see what the timing light says and that is your "total timing". If you have a quality timing light with the advance feature then you can find out exactly how much vauum advance there is and also how much mechanical advance there is easily.

I would ask the shop what they "think" the problem is and what they intend to do to fix the problem BEFORE you go pulling the engine, hell I would just drop off the truck and tell them if it's their problem to fix it and call when it's done. There is no reason you should have to remove the engine in order to change some lifters.

 

[bradshawtech]

Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? seems to be too fast of a clatter but could it be the push rod for the pump?

How about checking inside the distributor cap for a clearance issue as well.

 

[4xcrazy]

sounded like valve clatter to me, like a high mileage set of heads, almost a "pinging" i guess is what people like to call it.

edit, just listened to it again, ok, maybe not "pinging" but definately sounds like a Diesel valve sounding clatter.

 

[Silver84k5]

Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? seems to be too fast of a clatter but could it be the push rod for the pump?

How about checking inside the distributor cap for a clearance issue as well.

Yes mech fuel pump...


I had the cap off, and i didnt see any signs of contact with anything.

 

[Silver84k5]

sounded like valve clatter to me, like a high mileage set of heads, almost a "pinging" i guess is what people like to call it.

edit, just listened to it again, ok, maybe not "pinging" but definately sounds like a Diesel valve sounding clatter.

Thats what im thinking, it has to be in the valve train somewhere.

 

[Silver84k5]

Total timing means what you set for initial, plus however much vacuum advance adds and also how much mechanical advance adds. All you really need to do is run the engine up to about 3000 RPM and see what the timing light says and that is your "total timing". If you have a quality timing light with the advance feature then you can find out exactly how much vauum advance there is and also how much mechanical advance there is easily.

I would ask the shop what they "think" the problem is and what they intend to do to fix the problem BEFORE you go pulling the engine, hell I would just drop off the truck and tell them if it's their problem to fix it and call when it's done. There is no reason you should have to remove the engine in order to change some lifters.

MY timing light is a cheap POS. so i guess i have no accurate way of telling them the total timing.

This place wont work on a motor in the vehicle. I kinda got pissed off, and flustered when he said bring the motor to the shop. I just started taking **** apart and i have it ready to remove, just waiting on a cherry picker.

He said he will check it out for free, so we will see what happens.

Im gonna go back in the garage and drown my sorrows in a can of beer. or 12....

Thx for the responses, ill post up the findings when i find em. LOL

 

[Silver84k5]

if it's their problem to fix it and call when it's done. There is no reason you should have to remove the engine in order to change some lifters.

i have a feeling that if it was their fault or not, they will blame it on detonation/wrong timing, etc.

based on the stories ive heard from this place.

if i feel like they messed up, and didnt make things right, ill post up their website, so no one else gets screwed by them.

 

[Slapperbar]

Keep us posted.

 

[Silver84k5]

The engine shop said that the Thrust bearing was wiped out, most likely due to a ballooning torque converter. He is replacing the main bearings, giving the cylinders a touch up hone, and re ringing the pistons...

What do i need to do about this transmission problem? Could it be a problem with the pump?

 

[Slapperbar]

New tq converter, cheap insurance. Or send existing one to converter chop and see if it's deformed / messed up.

 

[4X4HIGH]

The engine shop said that the Thrust bearing was wiped out, most likely due to a ballooning torque converter. He is replacing the main bearings, giving the cylinders a touch up hone, and re ringing the pistons...

What do i need to do about this transmission problem? Could it be a problem with the pump?

It is doubtful that the crank isn't damaged as well and will need to have the thrust surface welded and then remachined.

Do you have a proper ground strap from the battery to the engine? The reason I ask is because the lack of a good proper ground cable from the battery to the engine can wipe out a thrust bearing in nothing flat. Of course it could be a ballooned convertor which is generally caused by a restriction in the cooling line(s) so look for a bent/pinched/damaged cooler line. I would definately make sure a NEW convertor is installed AFTER you have checked the cooler lines from one end to the other.

 

[Silver84k5]

It is doubtful that the crank isn't damaged as well and will need to have the thrust surface welded and then remachined.

Do you have a proper ground strap from the battery to the engine? The reason I ask is because the lack of a good proper ground cable from the battery to the engine can wipe out a thrust bearing in nothing flat. Of course it could be a ballooned convertor which is generally caused by a restriction in the cooling line(s) so look for a bent/pinched/damaged cooler line. I would definately make sure a NEW convertor is installed AFTER you have checked the cooler lines from one end to the other.

MY ground strap is 2/0 cable going from the frame to alternator "pivot bolt" with copper lugs on both ends. Will that work? or should i get one of those real straps?

My tranny cooler lines havent been replaced since the truck was new im sure, and its had a few engine removal/installs, They have always looked cheesy to me, and looked like theyve been messed with too many times, tweaked and what not. Maybe its time to run some new ones.

The tranny has a fairly fresh rebuild on it. And iirc they use a remanned T/C when they did the trans.

I thought i remember reading somewhere that the front pump can actually put pressure out on the T/C pushing it forward.


The list right now, is

Re run the trans cooler lines.

New T/C.

Possible different ground strap.

 

[Silver84k5]

It is doubtful that the crank isn't damaged as well and will need to have the thrust surface welded and then remachined.

He said that if it was running the stock crank, then it probally wouldve wiped the crank out aswell.

He said since it has an Eagle crank in it, and i caught it soon enough that the crank was alright. So i dunno.

 

[4X4HIGH]

He said that if it was running the stock crank, then it probally wouldve wiped the crank out aswell.

He said since it has an Eagle crank in it, and i caught it soon enough that the crank was alright. So i dunno.

You better find another machine shop QUICK. It doesn't matter if you have a stock cast crank, stock forged crank or a very expensive after market crank they ALL damage the same from a thrust failure, rod bearing failure or a main bearing failure.

 

[Silver84k5]

You better find another machine shop QUICK. It doesn't matter if you have a stock cast crank, stock forged crank or a very expensive after market crank they ALL damage the same from a thrust failure, rod bearing failure or a main bearing failure.

I had a feeling that i would hear this.

This shop has been around for a long time. And is still doing business, but i have heard that they dont do top notch work. I cant afford a new mill right now. I have a 454 sitting on a stand that could use a rebuild, and an lt1 that i could throw in there, but not in the mood to deal with that.

Im wondering, should i spring for a crank for piece of mind?

from summit

eagle crank, esp-103523750, 383 crank 189.95

then i see the summit brand cast crank for 311.95

the eagle crank says up to 500 horse. my motor is advertised around 410 horse, 440 torque. so i should be safe with that. but the price difference with the summit brand, raises a red flag to me.

 

[Never Satisfied]

Do you have a proper ground strap from the battery to the engine? The reason I ask is because the lack of a good proper ground cable from the battery to the engine can wipe out a thrust bearing in nothing flat.

Small hi-jack.

What process causes this?

 

[4X4HIGH]

Small hi-jack.

What process causes this?

Taken from here as reference...http://www.artcarr.com/page/news/1.acpp

Other External Problems
Aside from the items already mentioned, there is another external problem that should be addressed. Ground problems have been known to intensify thrust surface wear. Excessive current in the drivetrain can damage the thrust surface, which then affects the thrust bearing as though the thrust surface on the crank shaft isn't finished properly.

It's easy to check for excessive voltage in the drivetrain: Connect the negative lead of your DVOM to the negative post of the battery, and the positive lead to the transmission. You should see no more than 0.1 volts on your meter while the starter is cranking.

For an accurate test, the starter must operate for at least four seconds. It may be necessary to disable the ignition system so the engine won't start during the test.

If the voltage is excessive, check or replace the negative battery cable, or add ground straps from the engine to the frame, or the transmission to the frame.

Some systems may reach 0.3 volts momentarily without having a problem. For added assurance, improve the ground with a larger battery cable or additional ground straps.

Although the greatest current draw is usually while the starter is cranking, current in the drivetrain can occur while accessories are operating. That's why you should perform this voltage-drop test with the ignition on, and as many accessories operating as possible. Again, the threshold is 0.1 volt.

One final problem that may occur is current though the drivetrain, without measurable voltage. If the grounding problem is in the chassis but the engine and transmission ground is okay (or vice-versa), the vehicle may pass the test. What happens here is the ground circuit can be completed through the drive shaft and suspension.

To test this, measure the voltage drop with the drive shaft removed. Both the drivetrain and frame must pass the 0.1 volt test. This is where a ground strap from the engine or transmission to the frame does its best work.

 

[4X4HIGH]

I had a feeling that i would hear this.

This shop has been around for a long time. And is still doing business, but i have heard that they dont do top notch work. I cant afford a new mill right now. I have a 454 sitting on a stand that could use a rebuild, and an lt1 that i could throw in there, but not in the mood to deal with that.

Im wondering, should i spring for a crank for piece of mind?

from summit

eagle crank, esp-103523750, 383 crank 189.95

then i see the summit brand cast crank for 311.95

the eagle crank says up to 500 horse. my motor is advertised around 410 horse, 440 torque. so i should be safe with that. but the price difference with the summit brand, raises a red flag to me.

DO NOT buy another crank. Have your crank fixed by a COMPETENT crank grinder.