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spools, selectable lockers, limited slips, etc. Now crossover ?'s

76zimmer

76zimmer

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I've been perusing through the search columns, and found a few articles on these topics.

I'm considering a spool for my D60 front. Of course when in use it would be only off road, as I won't drive the truck if any in the winter. On road use would have the hubs unlocked, and front axle idle.

Have you used one in your rig?
 
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Mines welded so thats close...it was a bitch without crossover or hydro to steer but with them both its not too bad. Id prefer a locker but i couldnt afford one at the time. I dont use my truck at all during the winter since winters are salty/dirty mess i guess you could say the rust belt..lol..so i have no idea how it is in the snow...
 
spools are unforgiving right?i would not put that in the front.but i don't krawl. but then again i like the sound of stub shafts snaping.:DPS. Dave is a good friend of mine. so THIS is all in fun.
 
Well, you can unlock one if need be or both for street use, and just let the wheels roll free. I read that the pros are: they are cheap, help to make the diff stronger, and when the hubs are locked in, there is no doubt as to whats going on up front.

I plan on running cross-over so that will help. I have a lockright in the front of my Jeepster, and I know when its locked on the street with low air pressure that thing is all over the place, especially when upshifting under throttle.
 
Not sure how cross-over helps overcome the effects of a spool or welded front. Not like it gives you any more steering power, it only eliminates the issues with geometry and binding when the suspension flexes.

The spool or welded front axle is not going to be any harder on front axle shafts or other components than any true locker.....when under power a Detroit, Lock-right, etc... will be locked. I've seen people with ARB's turn them off in certain situations to avoid breaking a front shaft but I don't understand the philosphy. I've actually seen a couple Jeeps break front axleshafts doing this because of instead of crawling the obstale with the locker engaged they have to beat the crap out of it with an open front.
 
1) I plan on trying to only have 6" lift, which I think it is better to have cross-over on right?
2) So is the consensus of cross-over to have hydro or does regular PS work good?
3) Is there a down side to having a spool up front, if you have lock-outs?

I'm familiar with Lock-rights, I have one front and rear in my Jeepster, and got used to them quick, as far as reaction while driving on pavement (front is an absolute no-no).
 
76zimmer said:
1) I plan on trying to only have 6" lift, which I think it is better to have cross-over on right?
2) So is the consensus of cross-over to have hydro or does regular PS work good?
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Crossover is MUCH better than the stock steering because it gives you so much more steering control.

Crossover works fine with the stock power steering but with a locker/spool up front you will have lots of trouble steering. It will also be very hard on the frame and the splined shaft on the steering box (I've seen several of these failures with front lockers/spools without hydro assist).

Crossover and hydro assist is really the way to go with a front locker/spool. Way more steering power and it takes a lot of the strain off of the frame and steering box.

76zimmer said:
3) Is there a down side to having a spool up front, if you have lock-outs?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the spool is harder on shafts/joints. Mechanical lockers do have a little bit of "give" in them which makes them easier on shafts and joints.

As a bit of proof of the above, Bobby Long (Longfield Super axles) will warranty his shafts with a front locker but won't with a spool.
 
awesome, thanks Chris. I will seek out a lock right again.

I will go cross-over to begin with and update to hydro in the future. I do plan on frame reinforcement, and boxing the frame in this phase of my build.
 
Locker in the front?

I'm a total newb, can somebody describe to me how an auto locker in the front behaves? I'm hoping that when I need to make a sharp turn offroad I can just put it in 2wd and the front will unlock because there's no torque (even with hubs locked)? I know on the street it would be no good.
 
Unless you want the turning radius of a freight train then you will need hydro assist if you lock the front. I am running a Powerlock up front and even with the hubs locked and in 2wd it wouldn't turn well without hydro. I'm not sure if a locker will act any different. I would not put a spool in the front.
 
what type of "auto" locker, and what axle?
 
Adventurous 4x4 said:
Unless you want the turning radius of a freight train then you will need hydro assist if you lock the front. I am running a Powerlock up front and even with the hubs locked and in 2wd it wouldn't turn well without hydro. I'm not sure if a locker will act any different. I would not put a spool in the front.
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I went with a lockright on the recommendation of many members here. I've got a lockright in the front, and back of my Jeepster, so I'm somewhat familiar with how they act. And I have had no effect on road, with the hubs unlocked, in 2WD. Hoping the same will be true for this Blazer.
 
With those type of lockers, they really don't slip like a limited slip does....if you have your front hubs locked in, even in 2WD it will be noticeably harder turning than if you had them unlocked (free wheeling) But in my opinion, you should only have them locked in, when you will absolutely need them, and slippage of the ground surface is a high possibility so you don't create a bind in your system.
 
76zimmer said:
With those type of lockers, they really don't slip like a limited slip does....if you have your front hubs locked in, even in 2WD it will be noticeably harder turning than if you had them unlocked (free wheeling) But in my opinion, you should only have them locked in, when you will absolutely need them, and slippage of the ground surface is a high possibility so you don't create a bind in your system.
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Please don't take this personally, but this statement is completely wrong. If there is no torque going into the axle with a full locker (Detroit, Lock-right, etc...) from the driveshaft than it will be unlocked and have no steering drawbacks. I have a Lock-right and several guys in our club have full lockers also. There is no noticable steering difference when in 2wd between having the hubs locked or unlocked.

Many limited slips WILL make a noticable difference in steering with the hubs locked because it doesn't matter if there is any torque input or not as they always have the clutch packs preloaded the same way. I ran an Eaton Posi (spring loaded clutch packs) in the front for years and you could tell the difference between having the hubs locked or unlocked, though it was not dramatic.

Regarding some of the other comments, I also completely disagree that a spool or welded diff is somehow harder on axle shafts and u-joints than a Detroit, Lock-right, etc... Sure, there is some "play" with a locker but not like it will let a tire slip when under a heavy load to relieve stress on an axleshaft. If anything a locker would be worse as the "play" is really slop and can cause a big shock load when it engages..........ever drove a light vehicle with a Detroit on the highway? Ever heard the loud bang of a Detroit and feel the vehicle lurch sideways after you coast down a hill then give it a little gas to get back up the other side?

My turning radius isn't any different now that I have hydro-assist than before. Come on now, hydro-assist does not magically make the wheels turn more now. It does make it easier to turn and go lock-to-lock especially when the wheels are jammed in rocks and ruts.

And again, crossover steering does not make it easier to turn. The main purpose is better geometry, mainly so when the front suspension is crossed up you still maintain the ability to turn the wheels both directions. With stock steering the draglink is so short that when the drivers side suspension droops all the way out the steering box is turned to full-lock just to keep the wheels pointed straight and therefore it doesn't have any range of motion left to turn right.
 
6.2Blazer said:
Please don't take this personally, but this statement is completely wrong. If there is no torque going into the axle with a full locker (Detroit, Lock-right, etc...) from the driveshaft than it will be unlocked and have no steering drawbacks. I have a Lock-right and several guys in our club have full lockers also. There is no noticable steering difference when in 2wd between having the hubs locked or unlocked.

Many limited slips WILL make a noticable difference in steering with the hubs locked because it doesn't matter if there is any torque input or not as they always have the clutch packs preloaded the same way. I ran an Eaton Posi (spring loaded clutch packs) in the front for years and you could tell the difference between having the hubs locked or unlocked, though it was not dramatic.

Regarding some of the other comments, I also completely disagree that a spool or welded diff is somehow harder on axle shafts and u-joints than a Detroit, Lock-right, etc... Sure, there is some "play" with a locker but not like it will let a tire slip when under a heavy load to relieve stress on an axleshaft. If anything a locker would be worse as the "play" is really slop and can cause a big shock load when it engages..........ever drove a light vehicle with a Detroit on the highway? Ever heard the loud bang of a Detroit and feel the vehicle lurch sideways after you coast down a hill then give it a little gas to get back up the other side?

My turning radius isn't any different now that I have hydro-assist than before. Come on now, hydro-assist does not magically make the wheels turn more now. It does make it easier to turn and go lock-to-lock especially when the wheels are jammed in rocks and ruts.

And again, crossover steering does not make it easier to turn. The main purpose is better geometry, mainly so when the front suspension is crossed up you still maintain the ability to turn the wheels both directions. With stock steering the draglink is so short that when the drivers side suspension droops all the way out the steering box is turned to full-lock just to keep the wheels pointed straight and therefore it doesn't have any range of motion left to turn right.
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I agree 100%...Automatic lockers only engage and when there is substantial enough torque input from the pinion. I know A LOT of people running click-rights and detroits in front applications (myself included) and there is ZERO steering feed-back when the hubs are locked in and the vehicle is in 2wd...It is a different story in 4wd though.
 
No offense taken, but in my experience, which, as far as a front lockers go, my closed knuckle D27....I can feel the difference in the wheel when it is in 2WD, and the front hubs were left locked. My dad was thinking the same thing, in that if no power is going to the front diff. it shouldn't matter. But if I turn to go around a 90* turn, the wheel is fighting me the whole way if those hubs are locked in. If they freewheel, then there is no change in the steering. I have no power steering, and a somewhat lightweight vehicle (3500)
Just my observation. Evidently I'm not the norm for this setup.
 
I just bought a Spartan lunch box for my D60. I did not want to tear the axle apart, my buddy runs Aussies in his CJ with Yot axles and has been very happy. I'm going to give it a try. They got a good review on Pirate.
 
I went with the Lockright in my 60, so I'll see how that compares to the D27.
At any rate, unlocking the hubs has never been a big deal to me...
 
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