Starter Issues

[evolve991]

My starter recently started dragging,like the timing is way advanced, and disengaging after only a few turns. It runs great after started and was fine for months after new battery and alt.

Battery is new 850 CCA. Alternator is new HO. Heavy wire from it to battery. Sensor wire ran to hot side of junction on firewall.

I have changed starters,shimmed starter on the outside,on the inside, evenly across ( I've never had to shim GMs much and I've owned alot of GMs)
I put a new flywheel on, the one I pulled looked like the original 73 believe it or not.
I've cleaned grounds,ran new wire to the hot side of solenoid,put another ground on.

So before I go tearing into the dash or steering column I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else has had this kind of head scratcher.

 

[evolve991]

sigh.....gremlins.....frakkin gremlins.......

 

[ryoken]

well... I would at least isolate the issue somewhat before you start blaming ignitions, etc.. jumper the starter and see how it does.. preferably with a simple remote start switch.. you can make one easy enough with a momentary on/off switch and a bit of wire if you don't own one... heck, even a shorted out screwdriver will eliminate that as the issue..

 

[evolve991]

Exactly the kind of idea I was asking for. And something I should have known but sometimes ya forget what ya know......old age creeping in? or maybe too many forehead vs truck frame/door header/sons' blockheads....dunno but THANKS Ryoken

 

[ryoken]

it's always a key to diagnostics, isolating and breaking down the issues.. I would also double check that the starter is working ok at this point and the bendix is staying engaged.. pull it and bench test it..

to be honest.. it's been very, very rare that I EVER needed to shim a starter... maybe a couple of my sb mopars back in the day, maybe... you would NEVER see a shimmed starter in a boat.... ever...and those are just sb and bb chevy's like you find in cars... it's just not done and is never called for by any manny.. I've had thousands in/out, and never seen a shim..

let me know what ya find and we'll figure it out..

 

[evolve991]

Same here. I've shimmed maybe 2 starters in 30 years and they were absolute junk from the box. Before swapping flywheels I benched and bolted up 3 different starters, one was original AC Delco from the trunk of a derelict...it jumped like new when benched....well, time to get my aching self out there and start testing.....thanks again

 

[evolve991]

I didn't get to work on the starter but I plan on just putting in a backup with a spring loaded toggle, had one in my Buick and loved it, I figure it can never hurt to have a secondary system. I do have an "out there" question though... is it possible my crank/flywheel is getting sloppy and moving just a hair out of round? It's a 73 block, runs good, doesn't use much oil but worried about it being on its last leg. No oil leaks at rear seal evident....am I inventing new worries or is that a possibility?

 

[AR_K5]

You said you switched staters but never said if you tried a new one. It sounds to me like you need to inspect the brass bushings on the starter drive gear. It's more likely that your drive gear is moving than the flywheel.

 

[evolve991]

I've put 3 different starters on, before and after new flywheel. They all benched strong and held spin til I let off the juice. The reason I ask about the crank is because the starter will spin and miss entirely, spin and grind then crank like new and fire up all without me moving the flywheel by hand. I figure the straight juice from a toggle will bypass any ignition circuit shorting just never had a starter do all those things in mixed order. They either cranked, missed or locked up.

 

[AR_K5]

Are you certain your flywheel/flex plate are matched (tooth count)? Have you tried adjusting the timing?
The parts store gave me the wrong flex plate for my '68, and after replacing 3 starters they got to replace the flex plate too.

The one on my K5 is doing like yours, occasionally it will jump, but I'm pretty sure it just needs a new bushing. I'll get to it eventually, but at the moment it's way down the list.

 

[evolve991]

Yeah I made sure it was the right wheel. Been thru that with my Buick before and it wasn't fun LOL Beginning to wish I had a manual trans LOL

 

[AR_K5]

Yeah I made sure it was the right wheel. Been thru that with my Buick before and it wasn't fun LOL Beginning to wish I had a manual trans LOL

Other than that I would check all of my connection, you may just not be getting enough amps to it, heavy wires are only as good as the connections at either end.

Best of luck to you.

 

[evolve991]

Thanks. I'm going to crawl under the dash and check the neutral safety, ignition switch/rod etc. Are there any relays on the fuse box that effect ignition? Already replaced the battery begative, the hot to solenoid and alt to junction, had the stuff laying around anyway. When I pull the starter for the backup I'm putting another hot main from battery on. Planned on all that anyway just ran into this headache before I could. It's always something simple after you overhaul the whole damn thing

 

[AR_K5]

Thanks. I'm going to crawl under the dash and check the neutral safety, ignition switch/rod etc. Are there any relays on the fuse box that effect ignition? Already replaced the battery begative, the hot to solenoid and alt to junction, had the stuff laying around anyway. When I pull the starter for the backup I'm putting another hot main from battery on. Planned on all that anyway just ran into this headache before I could. It's always something simple after you overhaul the whole damn thing

When you replaces the wires and terminals were you sure to wire brush/scrape off any anti-oxidation coatings that might have been present? I've seen that be an issue as well.

 

[evolve991]

When you replaces the wires and terminals were you sure to wire brush/scrape off any anti-oxidation coatings that might have been present? I've seen that be an issue as well.

Yes I'm an addict for my trusty Dewalt 12vMax drill with wire wheel
I use it on everything I can. And a few things I shouldn't.


O.K.......it's electrical definitely electrical. Yesterday I started it 4 times and it did not hesitate, grind, miss or lock up. Beautiful rr-rr-ooOOOMbahhhh....(excuse the audio description attempt) fired RIGHT up like it never had a problem. This lady is SCHIZOID I will now direct and apply my forehead to the nearest brick wall.

 

[evolve991]

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN ISOLATED.......

Tilt.Steering. Column........Yesterday I pulled the wheel down 1 notch. I,or someone, apparently moved it up and I never noticed. It hasn't acted even a little goofy since.
This is good news because I have a nice shiny tilt column out of an 80s Caprice I was planning on this upgrade soon anyway so if I baby the column until then I don't have to dig into the mess now.

THANKS everybody for the help, all knowledge is good

 

[evolve991]

Confirmed Bumped the wheel with my knee and got the fork-in-the-garbage-disposal effect. Raised and lowered it a notch and back to smooth cranking. Might be a little tougher to baby it than I hoped.


Coming Soon: Tilt Wheel Swap and GM "horseshoe" Floor Shifter Install.

I said the I got the column out of a Caprice/Impala...it hit me that all of those I've seen had column shift...wonder what THEY got it out of and how much trouble the turn signal harness,etc was.....

 

[evolve991]

OK Final verdict. Combo of tilt column problems and series of junk starters. 1 from Advance, 1 from Autozone and 1 from Pep Boys. All 3 identical except for the barcode sticker. I ended up putting a Proform high torque starter and a TCI flywheel on and slapped a cheater button in. Never heard a motor start better No shims no grinding just bump and it's purring.

 

[diesel4me]

I used a manual push button to the solenoid on my 72 K5,when its ignition switch started refusing to work well in the crank position...after I installed it,I was surprised how much faster it cranked over...it also qualified me for a 10% discount on my car insurance as an "anti-theft" device-......-I hid it under the dash near the steering colum...

 

[FallGuy86]

So did you ever swap the column? I'm about to get one out of a '90 burb to stab in my 86 k30 and hoping not only will it fit but be an easy swap..