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Starter woes. Stumped

76k5blazerr

76k5blazerr

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So a buddy of mine has a 78 blazer, he has had it for like 35 years. Roughly 25 years ago, he had a new starter put on it and it lasted up until 2 weeks ago when it died. His truck has headers and the old starter had a heat shield on it. It always cranked fine hot or cold. So when the starter took a crap the other day he had it towed to my place so I could change the starter. I went and got a reman duralast unit from auto zone, because I had good luck with the one on my 76, my truck doesn't have headers though. So I put on that starter, put the old heat shield on it and drove it around for a few days and didn't have a problem with the starter, gave it back to him and a few days later he calls me saying he drove it to the store and now it won't start, but it cranked fine when cold. Brings it back to my house and it sat for a couple days, then I went out and cranked it, fired right up, drove it for 20 mins or so and came home and waited 5 mins. It then started up fine. Then I turned it off for like 15 mins and came back out and it would not start, cranked super super slow to not at all.

Then I decided to cover all the bases and I exchanged the starter for another one to start fresh, got a new heat shield because the old one was pretty trashed, put it all back together and routed the starter wires as far away from the header as possible. Same problem but not quite as serious happens now. After I did all this I drove it for 20-25 mins and came home and let it sit for 5-10 mins and went back out and it cranked fine, let it sit another 15 mins and then it struggled but still started.

I am stumped because everything is put back together the same if not better as it was on the old old starter, that lasted 25 years. The next thing I have in mind that I am 99% sure will cure the problem is installing a ford solenoid on the fender like I have on my c10 with headers.

Do you guys have any ideas other than that? I just don't get how it worked fine before. Could it just be that the starters now are that much crappier than they were 20 years ago. The 25 year old starter that came off was also a duralast, don't know if it was new or reman though.
 
phreddei166 said:
Had same problem. Went to a quality mini starter. More clearance , no heat soak , less weight. This one. http://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9526/10002/-1
Click to expand...
Wow, thats steep. I don't think he is wanting to spend that kind of money. I know a mini starter would cure it but I guess what I am really looking for is an explanation as to why its struggling now but didn't have a problem for 25 years with everything in the same configuration.
 
I would NEVER buy duralast unless it was the only option! I know that I have said this before, in another thread....
I have seen heard of their stuff not working right out of the box...
Anyway, are you getting the high torque ones? There is a medium torque unit, the spacer is there but shorter than these.
I talking about where the motor connection is from the solenoid.

20170220_211745.jpg
 
I would also check the positive cable very well for any signs that it internal problems. It may not be obvious though.
Look for insulation that is severely darkened from heat, which may point to a spot in the copper which is degraded.
Just a shot in the dark, but...
 
It's pretty obvious you are getting heat soak causing your starter woes. The saying they don't make them like they used to applies here. The main reason the starter worked for 25 years in that configuration is that it was a quality unit back then 25 years ago. I won't say that about the duralast part. The fact that a second one behaves in the EXACT same manner as the first one only drives the point home. Can't skimp on the starter in general, but with headers it's even more critical. My old blazer ran crappy headers and I ran an original style premium starter that was from the blown engine. Never did I need to resort to a ford starter relay. I did run a kevlar heat shield with it, but it never once not started hot.

Spend the money on a good starter and you won't need to add a relay to it.
 
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Thanks guys. Yeah I know duralast isn't the greatest. If it were my truck I probably would have bought a nicer one right off the bat, but I was hoping to get him back on the road for cheap. I would rather not put a Ford solenoid on it either. I am going to drive it for a few days and see if it ever refuses to start. Then go from there.
 
I trust OEM used salvage yard starters more than any "rebuilt" parts stores ones--even so called "quality" starters like AC/Delco rebuilts are iffy nowadays..I'd guess 90% of all rebuilt & new starters come from Mexico or China now..

If the old starter had the full length solenoid on it and the new one has the mini version,that may be a factor--the larger solenoid probably resists and dissapates heat better than the shorty ones do..

Another thing to consider--if the battery cables are as old as that starter was,they could be full of corrosion and have high resistance,which will show up more when the starter gets hot and needs every amp it can get to kick in and crank..
 
76k5blazerr said:
but I was hoping to get him back on the road for cheap.
Click to expand...
The money spent on this unit that is giving problems could have gone towards a better one. Cheap can get expensive when you have to keep messing around with it! What's your time worth?
And when will it take a crap again ?
How much will he trust the truck?
I like knowing that my stuff will work and not leave me somewhere...
 
6872xtc said:
The money spent on this unit that is giving problems could have gone towards a better one. Cheap can get expensive when you have to keep messing around with it! What's your time worth?
And when will it take a crap again ?
How much will he trust the truck?
I like knowing that my stuff will work and not leave me somewhere...
Click to expand...
Very true. I am going to have the battery tested and also clean all of the connections the have anything to do with the battery/starter and then if it still has trouble I'll have to mention a higher torque starter.
 
Another thing to consider is the old high torque GM starters needed a good battery --a cheap battery with insufficient cranking amps will just make the starter grunt and groan when its hot...
We often "solved" this problem at the parts store by selling the customer a good 5+ year battery,if they had a department store cheapie in their vehicle...
 
diesel4me said:
Another thing to consider is the old high torque GM starters needed a good battery --a cheap battery with insufficient cranking amps will just make the starter grunt and groan when its hot...
We often "solved" this problem at the parts store by selling the customer a good 5+ year battery,if they had a department store cheapie in their vehicle...
Click to expand...
I am not thinking there is a battery or connection problem though being that everything worked fine before. Probably gonna have to buy a nicer starter.
 
I had a similar problem on my 98 K3500. Starter worked when it wanted. Replaced the starter with a new unit, both batteries where good and voltage readings at the solenoid where 12+ V. Everything looked good but still only started when it felt like it. Took a voltage reading from the neg post on the battery to the ground on the block and had 3 V there. Replaced the ground and all is good.

Might not be the issue with yours, but it's a quick check.
 
acm said:
I had a similar problem on my 98 K3500. Starter worked when it wanted. Replaced the starter with a new unit, both batteries where good and voltage readings at the solenoid where 12+ V. Everything looked good but still only started when it felt like it. Took a voltage reading from the neg post on the battery to the ground on the block and had 3 V there. Replaced the ground and all is good.

Might not be the issue with yours, but it's a quick check.
Click to expand...
Definetly going to go through and clean all of the connections/check the cables before I have him buy another starter.
 
I am not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I will say it again, check what they sold you against the picture that I posted. Make sure that you got a high torque unit.

You can also get a factory gear reduction, I have gotten them from '97 Tahoe, and '99 big block. So there were lots of them out there.
 
6872xtc said:
I am not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I will say it again, check what they sold you against the picture that I posted. Make sure that you got a high torque unit.

You can also get a factory gear reduction, I have gotten them from '97 Tahoe, and '99 big block. So there were lots of them out there.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the help. I will check the starter tomorrow. Anyway I drove his truck today and it never had a problem. One time after a 45 min drive, parking and the truck sitting for an hour it turned over a little slower than normal but still started fine. Another time I drove it for 10 mins and parked for 4 mins to run in a store and it cranked right back up. So maybe the new heat shield has made it good enough. I am going to drive it again tomorrow and see what happens. I talked to him tonight and apologized for buying him a cheap unit but told him that I have done everything I can to make it work optimally, he's all good with everything and knows that the next step is a 100 dollar starter, and if we have to go that route I will probably cover the 40 dollars that the duralast unit cost.
 
I have a duralast, and no heat shield and I have never had any issues.

They are not long tubes though, they are like mid length ones, so maybe that is enough to keep the heat away?
 
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