Starting issues

[troutbum_mt]

Let's make this question simple. The vehicle starts well when cold, but doesn't when hot. I mean it is almost like a dead battery when hot. It tries to crank but does the waaahh---wahhhhh-wahhhhh thing. Once it cools it cranks fine.

Bad battery (or both since I have dual)?

Starter?

Have new pos cable going to starter, maybe another wire?

Grounds are good unless those cables are bad. I cleaned up the connection spots.

Alternator going out? Should have that checked after batteries.

BTW, how do you start a poll in posts?

I am going to have the batteries checked tomorrow and am thinking this is a wiring problem or starter issue if it isn't the batteries. Just want to make sure I am not forgetting anything. I have to be in hunting camp thursday and won't be back until Sunday while I attempt to kill a big bull elk and don't want to get stuck out there What am I missing?

 

[4X4HIGH]

Couple things. Check your timing, if it's way off it will be hard(er) to start when operating temp. Second is you could have heat soak with the starter/solenoid. Third is make 100% sure that all cables are GOOD, CLEAN and TIGHT. Cables will start to go bad from the inside out so it is sometimes hard to tell if a cable is bad or not. If the cables are old i would recommend just changing them. Also for any cables that are real long welding cable works best because of the many strands of wire which will have less resistance. You would need to buy and either solder or crimp the terminal ends on the welding cable.

 

[troutbum_mt]

Couple

Quit teasing!

 

[lectric80]

It sounds to me like you may have a solenoid issue. When it get's hot it doesn't make good contact and therefore causes issues getting started. It could also be the ground cable, since it rots from the inside out.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Every once in a while i hit some damn key on my keyboard and it sends my reply before i'm actually done.

 

[troutbum_mt]

Every once in a while i hit some damn key on my keyboard and it sends my reply before i'm actually done.

Premature e-sendulation must suck. Have you checked into Veeagra?

 

[troutbum_mt]

It sounds to me like you may have a solenoid issue. When it get's hot it doesn't make good contact and therefore causes issues getting started. It could also be the ground cable, since it rots from the inside out.

Good points. The solenoids on these starters are mounted to the top of the starter correct? Is it as simple as to just replacing that or do I need to replace the whole starter? Am definitely going to replace that ground just to make sure.

 

[lectric80]

You can swap the solenoid, most parts stores can sell you one for cheap. There are only two bolts that hold it on, and it slides right off. Pretty simple swap, but I would wait for 4x4's suggestions, as he has way more experience diagnosing than I do.

 

[troutbum_mt]

Couple things. Check your timing, if it's way off it will be hard(er) to start when operating temp. Second is you could have heat soak with the starter/solenoid. Third is make 100% sure that all cables are GOOD, CLEAN and TIGHT. Cables will start to go bad from the inside out so it is sometimes hard to tell if a cable is bad or not. If the cables are old i would recommend just changing them. Also for any cables that are real long welding cable works best because of the many strands of wire which will have less resistance. You would need to buy and either solder or crimp the terminal ends on the welding cable.

Yeah, I *may* (aka WAS) have been stupid and just replaced the positive cable. I should replace the ground too to rule out that side. When you talk about "heat soak" what exactly do you mean? No premature e-sendulation this time! lmao

As you pointed out, now is also a good time to upgrade the cables connecting the batteries to rule that out. Very good point and one I have been worried about. I should also check the batteries with a voltmeter and haven't. What is the good reading again?

 

[lectric80]

As far as voltmeter readings, static you want between 12 and 13, most will be around 12.4. Running you want to see about 14 volts and up to about 15.

In the heat soak situation, he is talking about a bad solenoid/starter, that will lose good contact when hot from the heat of the parked engine soaking into the solenoid/starter. At least that is what I think he means, but wait until he gets back online to make sure.

 

[troutbum_mt]

As far as voltmeter readings, static you want between 12 and 13, most will be around 12.4. Running you want to see about 14 volts and up to about 15.

In the heat soak situation, he is talking about a bad solenoid/starter, that will lose good contact when hot from the heat of the parked engine soaking into the solenoid/starter. At least that is what I think he means, but wait until he gets back online to make sure.

You are making good sense once again. Very, good sense as a matter of fact. I think you two have given me the right direction to check next. BTW quit cutting yourself short. You give out a lot of good advice and are very helpful.

 

[lectric80]

Not selling myself short, I have just learned that there are some members that have much more experience than myself, and I defer to them.

 

[troutbum_mt]

Not selling myself short, I have just learned that there are some members that have much more experience than myself, and I defer to them.

Yeah some people here amaze me too, but you are no slouch.

 

[4X4HIGH]

"Heat soak" is pretty much nothing more than the starter and solenoid "soaking up heat" getting hot enough that it affects the ability of the starter to function properly. When electrical items get hot it affects their function, electrical wiring is the biggest issue since heat affects the ability for voltage to flow properly.