Steering and Drag Link Question: 1975 Blazer

[BloodMoon]

Hi all!

So I have been slowly working on the truck making it better than it has been in a very long time. Recently I have replaced the steering box as well as the leaf spring bushings (bushings were non-existent).

The lift on it is a rough country (RC says its has to be a 4 inch but my father; who put it on originally many moons ago stands by the fact he believes that it is a 3-3.5") I have no idea...

The steering is getting better with little things here and there but I still have a problem; at the beginning of the turn the steering is a little slow to respond (1/4 turn approx.) and then it turns quickly after that, when I turn the wheel the opposite direction (1/4 turn?) the wheels respond slowly and then turn fast.

The applied pressure to the steering wheel is the same from lock-to-lock.

I had a friend turn the steering wheel back and forth and I watched every little connection as best that I could, all of the connections look good and every item moves when it is supposed to, except for one, the drag link.

What I noticed (or think I noticed) is that the drag links angle is changing some when the wheel is turned, it almost appears as if the steering force is being used to lift/lower the drag link end (connected to the pitman) before the intended push/pull?

Does this sound like this may be the cause: the drag link is at too steep of an angle? and yes I know the grease boots are worn, I am planning on replacing the entire drag link assembly to be safe.

Oh yeah, I do not believe there is any steering correction on it.

Thank you so much!

If the links work, there should be pictures below:

 

[blazer74]

Yeah I would say you need a raised steeing arm or lowered pitman arm, too much angle from gearbox to axle. Causes your front to raise before turning begins.

Its still going to do it a bit with a steering correction intalled with either a raised steering arm or a lowered pitman arm.

Or you could convert to crossover steering. You already spent cash on steering box which you would have to replace again for crossover.

Also check your rag joint and top joint on steering shaft for slop.

 

[BloodMoon]

Yeah I would say you need a raised steeing arm or lowered pitman arm, too much angle from gearbox to axle. Causes your front to raise before turning begins.

Its still going to do it a bit with a steering correction intalled with either a raised steering arm or a lowered pitman arm.

Or you could convert to crossover steering. You already spent cash on steering box which you would have to replace again for crossover.

Also check your rag joint and top joint on steering shaft for slop.

Ok, so with as much of an angle as my drag link has, it is exaggerating the slow initial response of the steering wheel input by forcing the drag link end up/down before fully applying the force to the wheel, I did take a look at the rag joint when I was watching the connections, from what I could see, any input given to the steering wheel had an equal output to the pitman.

I will look into a raised steering arm from ORD, do you think this may solve most of the issues I'm having?and do you guys think the standard 4 inch should be fine? Given that I don't know the actual lift hight...

 

[BloodMoon]

Update

The steering is getting better with little things here and there but I still have a problem; at the beginning of the turn the steering is a little slow to respond (1/4 turn approx.) and then it turns quickly after that, when I turn the wheel the opposite direction (1/4 turn?) the wheels respond slowly and then turn fast.

Update:
I just took it for another drive; The input to the steering wheel and the slow response at the tires is actually less than a 1/4 turn; probably about 1/8 of a turn but from where the tires turn fast-to-fast it was probably just less than a 1/4.

 

[BloodMoon]

I just noticed a couple of things:

1: when in park, engine running, if I turn the wheel the truck moves (up and down?)? Is this normal?

2: also, I think I saw a little rotation or flex (center to the axle) in the steering arm?

Any additional ideas?

 

[blazer74]

Up and down movement is normal to point due to design. First install raised steering arm to help correct steering geometry. Make sure the frame is not cracked around steering box. Replace all worn spring bushings and install ORD heavy duty shackles. Install ORD bolt on steering brace.

Check steering shaft for slop at rag joint and upper slip joint.
And of course check ball joints and stabilizer bushings.

 

[colbystephens]

I second the rag joint as a likely culprit, and that you need a raised steering arm. Check the for-sale ads here for the arm, as lots of guys get rid of them when they switch to crossover steering.

 

[BloodMoon]

Up and down movement is normal to point due to design. First install raised steering arm to help correct steering geometry. Make sure the frame is not cracked around steering box. Replace all worn spring bushings and install ORD heavy duty shackles. Install ORD bolt on steering brace.

Check steering shaft for slop at rag joint and upper slip joint.
And of course check ball joints and stabilizer bushings.

I second the rag joint as a likely culprit, and that you need a raised steering arm. Check the for-sale ads here for the arm, as lots of guys get rid of them when they switch to crossover steering.

Alright, so I spent some time under the truck and checked one thing at a time, I have very minimal play in the rag joint, and nothing noticeable in the steering shaft.

What I did notice though was the suspension may be the culprit, I have already installed a set of brand new and well greased bushings in the eyes of the front leaf springs and when I was watching for play today I saw the front bushings "compress" and the rear shackle deflect a little bit.

I do know that my sway bar bushings need replacement but I don't know if that would fix my issue?

I believe my sway bar is actually 1 3/16 inch diameter which I didn't think was too popular a size, anyone else have this size?

I will probably get the raised steering arm later this week, if I happen to only have like a 3 inch lift will over correction be a huge issue?

Thanks again!

 

[BloodMoon]

I called ORD, they recommended a drop pitman over a raised steering arm; Do you guys have any feelings on this? I still am not sure if I have a 3 or 4 inch lift...

And yes, I did the use search function I am finding a lot of mixed responses ...

 

[blazer74]

I think the raised arm is for 4-6 lift and the drop pitman is for less.
I would go with ORD's recommendation.

I have approximately 4-5 inches of lift and the raised arm is not quite enough to make the drag link totally horizontal. I don't have any bump steer or excessive steering problems other than by its design.

 

[Fred_M1010]

I called ORD, they recommended a drop pitman over a raised steering arm; Do you guys have any feelings on this? I still am not sure if I have a 3 or 4 inch lift...

And yes, I did the use search function I am finding a lot of mixed responses ...

I don't know what components works with what amount of lift.
On my Dodge I tried different steering arms, spacers and bent the pitman arm, to get it perfect.
But if I didn't want to find it out for myself, I'd listen to ORD.
They seem to know their stuff

I think the raised arm is for 4-6 lift and the drop pitman is for less.
I would go with ORD's recommendation.

I have approximately 4-5 inches of lift and the raised arm is not quite enough to make the drag link totally horizontal. I don't have any bump steer or excessive steering problems other than by its design.

The drag link shouldn't be totally horizontal, unless your springs are.
It should follow the arch of the spring somewhat, since the axle moves towards the rear on compression.
An over corrected drag link gets worse bump steer than if it is under corrected IMO.

 

[Fred_M1010]

I called ORD, they recommended a drop pitman over a raised steering arm; Do you guys have any feelings on this? I still am not sure if I have a 3 or 4 inch lift...

It could be 4" springs that has sagged some over time...
What's the distance between the bump stops and the spring plates?
Stock seems to be only about 1" (problably more when new though...)

 

[chulisohombre]

Looks like a 3-4 inch lift. A drop pitman should get you pretty close. And is much easier to change out than the steering arm.

 

[BloodMoon]

I would go with ORD's recommendation.

I have approximately 4-5 inches of lift and the raised arm is not quite enough to make the drag link totally horizontal. I don't have any bump steer or excessive steering problems other than by its design.

The drag link shouldn't be totally horizontal, unless your springs are.
It should follow the arch of the spring somewhat, since the axle moves towards the rear on compression.
An over corrected drag link gets worse bump steer than if it is under corrected IMO.

What's the distance between the bump stops and the spring plates?
Stock seems to be only about 1" (problably more when new though...)

Looks like a 3-4 inch lift. A drop pitman should get you pretty close. And is much easier to change out than the steering arm.

I got the drop pitman ordered, it should be here tomorrow, hopefully I can get it installed this weekend!

Fred_M1010: I will try to get the distance measured for you as well.


Thanks guys!

 

[blazer74]

There is a post here called ride height I think that goes over lift height. I believe
It's from the bump stop bracket to the top of the axle tube.http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11016&highlight=Ride+heights

 

[BloodMoon]

I got the drop pitman from ORD installed today and adjusted the drag link.

The steering has gotten a lot better, but is still weird; I did make a phone call to RedHead Steering Gear in Washington the other day, they told me that I have a variable steering box (I ordered the quick ratio model and they said that the variable is the quick ratio); and it was explained to me that the farther away from center I turn the wheel the faster the wheels will turn.

So it looks like a decent amount of the slow response (or play as I thought) was coming from the variable design.... I don't like it... but I guess it will take some time to get use to.

As for the drag link; I got it adjusted as far as it will go- the two ends are bottomed out on each other. I tested the turning radius in a parking lot and used my feet to measure the diameter of the turn; the left turn had I diameter of 29 (my) feet and the right turn had a diameter of 23 (my) feet. So when I get my new drag link assembly I hope the ends will be short enough to not bottom out on each other.

On another note: My steering wheel cross section is now pretty close to going straight up and down instead of left and right, any suggestions to fix this after I get the drag link length fixed?

 

[BloodMoon]

There is a post here called ride height I think that goes over lift height. I believe
It's from the bump stop bracket to the top of the axle tube.http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11016&highlight=Ride+heights

Thanks! I will have to look into the method you posted when I have a little more time.

It could be 4" springs that has sagged some over time...
What's the distance between the bump stops and the spring plates?
Stock seems to be only about 1" (problably more when new though...)

I measured form the bushing mount to the spring mount and it measured at about 1 foot. So I guess I'm having some sagging issues?

 

[Fred_M1010]

I got the drop pitman from ORD installed today and adjusted the drag link.

The steering has gotten a lot better, but is still weird; I did make a phone call to RedHead Steering Gear in Washington the other day, they told me that I have a variable steering box (I ordered the quick ratio model and they said that the variable is the quick ratio); and it was explained to me that the farther away from center I turn the wheel the faster the wheels will turn.

So it looks like a decent amount of the slow response (or play as I thought) was coming from the variable design.... I don't like it... but I guess it will take some time to get use to.

I don't think there should be that much difference between a quick ratio and a variable box.
I think a bigger problem is that you're steering box isn't centered when driving straight.
The screw on top of the box is used to minimize play at center, but when the box isn't centered you can't adjust away all the play.

First make sure your tires is pointing straight forward.
Then remove the drag link and turn the steering wheel to full lock in both direction, and count the turns in between.
Divide the turns, so the steering gets exactly in the middle of the throw.
Now adjust the drag link so that it drops in without having to move the steering wheel.

As for the drag link; I got it adjusted as far as it will go- the two ends are bottomed out on each other. I tested the turning radius in a parking lot and used my feet to measure the diameter of the turn; the left turn had I diameter of 29 (my) feet and the right turn had a diameter of 23 (my) feet. So when I get my new drag link assembly I hope the ends will be short enough to not bottom out on each other.

On another note: My steering wheel cross section is now pretty close to going straight up and down instead of left and right, any suggestions to fix this after I get the drag link length fixed?

This is very strange.
Your turning radius tells me that you've got a too long drag link.
But you say that it's adjusted so it's already as short as possible.
The only possible reason that I can think of is
that your center pin is sheared, and the axle has moved forwards along the leaf....

 

[BloodMoon]

.

So when I get my new drag link assembly I hope the ends will be short enough to not bottom out on each other.

I don't think there should be that much difference between a quick ratio and a variable box.
I think a bigger problem is that you're steering box isn't centered when driving straight.

First make sure your tires is pointing straight forward.
Then remove the drag link and turn the steering wheel to full lock in both direction, and count the turns in between.
Divide the turns, so the steering gets exactly in the middle of the throw.
Now adjust the drag link so that it drops in without having to move the steering wheel.

This is very strange.
Your turning radius tells me that you've got a too long drag link.
But you say that it's adjusted so it's already as short as possible.
The only possible reason that I can think of is
that your center pin is sheared, and the axle has moved forwards along the leaf....

I have not ordered a new drag link assembly yet, but I did measure what is on the truck and it appears to be stock measurements - or atleast close to the measurements provided by moog for replacements (part numbers: ES2027L and ES2026R) the only real issues with my current drag link assembly is: too long (or my axle moved?) and the grease bushings are torn.

I figure since the ends are tight, that I would just get new bushings and not spend the money on new ends yet.

Can I just dissassemble the drag link and cut 0.5" to 0.75" off one of the two ends and put it back together? or is there shorter drag link ends that I can use?

 

[Fred_M1010]

You could, but you really should find out what the real problem is instead.