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Steering Box End Cap - Why A Retainer Ring, Not Snap Ring?

nvrenuf

nvrenuf

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I'm having trouble with the retaining ring on the Diy4x end cap repeatedly creeping out.

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Sourcing a replacement isn't the issue, it comes in a $35 reseal kit. That said, I'm no metallurgist but I don't think the stock ring is spring steel and I can bend it by hand whereas a locking hub ring has much more resistance. In fact, just peeling it out of the groove to swap the end cap distorted the rings shape and tension unlike a locking hub ring that can be manipulated dozens of times via periodic maintenance.

Why wouldn't this application use an internal snap ring? Why would GM and/or Saginaw engineers with bajillion dollar budgets NOT spec a typical internal snap ring? Is it related to the fact the end cap surface is bowl shaped and not square to the ring?

CK5 engineers learn me please, before I go get an internal snap ring to substitute.
 
Doesn't the cap push out slightly to hold that ring in? I had thought that was how they stayed, and why you usually push the end cap in a little to get them out.... :dunno:
 
That seems correct since turning the steering wheel is recommended to push the cap out when changing (engine off, retainer out).
 
Maybe I am wrong, but the picture looks like you only have about half of it. I am used to seeing the ring ends only have a small gap between the ends. But I have never saw one back out if the groove in the box is clean and undamaged.
So am I not seeing the other half? Or did something go wrong with yours?
 
nvrenuf said:
I'm having trouble with the retaining ring on the Diy4x end cap repeatedly creeping out.

full


Sourcing a replacement isn't the issue, it comes in a $35 reseal kit. That said, I'm no metallurgist but I don't think the stock ring is spring steel and I can bend it by hand whereas a locking hub ring has much more resistance. In fact, just peeling it out of the groove to swap the end cap distorted the rings shape and tension unlike a locking hub ring that can be manipulated dozens of times via periodic maintenance.

Why wouldn't this application use an internal snap ring? Why would GM and/or Saginaw engineers with bajillion dollar budgets NOT spec a typical internal snap ring? Is it related to the fact the end cap surface is bowl shaped and not square to the ring?

CK5 engineers learn me please, before I go get an internal snap ring to substitute.
Click to expand...

That snap ring is damaged and must be replaced, also the reason you're having trouble is because the end cap isnt fully seated yet. Pull the end cap back off, remove the o-ring and smear it liberally with grease and make sure the groove is spotless clean where the o-ring goes then install the o-ring in the groove then place the end cap in place and make sure it is square to the bore then with a rubber mallet drive the cap in place then install a NEW snap-ring.
 
It’s all there, the grease and fluid are messing up the definition of the pic. The pic in the first post shows how it’s creeping out. I had completely seated the ring then loaded / unloaded the truck on the trailer and that’s how far it came out, it seems to stop at that point but I’m afraid it’ll blow out.

Even when seated completely you can move it with a pick like there’s no outward tension.

Here are a couple of pics after I took it apart Saturday. One shows how much the ring distorted just spiraling it out.

4EF0C7D1-1313-4838-A754-863733D98B16.jpeg

275637DF-BBBA-43E7-8E41-FB3A21829631.jpeg
 
@4X4HIGH I will pick up a reseal kit and try it. I’d feel better having a real snap ring but not sure how it would work with the angled face of the cap.
 
Maybe the new ring in the kit will have better tension?
Other than that I would check the groove in the housing closely to see if it contributes to the problem.
 
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Yeah, maybe this ring is just suffering from old age. :dunno:
 
nvrenuf said:
Yeah, maybe this ring is just suffering from old age. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Old age could contribute to the integrity of the snap-ring but more importantly NEVER squeeze any kind of snap-ring more than absolutely required to remove it.
 
I've had the same issue with my DIY4X end cap, except mine did pop all the way off and sprayed fluid everywhere. I haven't had the time to get a new snap-ring and try again but I'll be watching this thread to see what you come up with.
 
bad_90blazer said:
I've had the same issue with my DIY4X end cap, except mine did pop all the way off and sprayed fluid everywhere. I haven't had the time to get a new snap-ring and try again but I'll be watching this thread to see what you come up with.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you've also experienced this. At first I thought be angled face might be contributing to the problem but I don't remember a squared shoulder on the original cap. EMS used to make a squared off cap but I can't find them online anymore so they may be DOA now.
 
Can you source a correct size snapring. It would definitely hold better. Looks like the stock one definitely has seen better days. Hopefully a new one fixes it. I’d attemp to scrape out the groove to make sure it is completely clean and no rust or old grease stuck in there pushing the retainer out. I never liked just a retainer either.
 
It would need to be a pretty thick snap ring,that round groove is bigger than what most snap rings seat in..a normal snap ring may not seat well in the rounded groove in the casting,a square cut groove is used with most snap rings..the P/S box one is more of a "circlip" than a snap ring..

Isn't there a hole in the casting for a punch ,so you can push in on the snap ring to remove it ?..

If so,wonder if you could drill another hole like that on the opposite side slightly before the ring groove and put a roll pin or tap it for a set screw,in each one,then that cap will never move again,especially with a new snap ring or the OEM type..
 
chulisohombre said:
Can you source a correct size snapring. It would definitely hold better. Looks like the stock one definitely has seen better days. Hopefully a new one fixes it. I’d attemp to scrape out the groove to make sure it is completely clean and no rust or old grease stuck in there pushing the retainer out. I never liked just a retainer either.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with the factory retainer, in fact if one were to try and use a square edge snap ring I would almost 100% guarantee it will fail in short order for two reasons, the groove in the box IS NOT a square cut groove and the thickness of a square snap ring would not be thick enough for the groove in the box. The issue at hand is a snap ring that was either mishandled or so stuck that it got bent removing it.
 
the round ring in a round seat under pressure i would think would hold more pressure than a square cut snap ring .

the round under pressure will bite harder with more surface area over the flat ring .

these are my idea's not sure if 100% correct ? ? ?
 
Obviously if everything is working correct it will do its job. It’s done it that way for decades in many different apps I’m sure. Maybe the cap just isn’t pushing back flush on a bad clip so it walks itself out. The spring clips on a ujoint is what I was thinking. Not just the standard c clip a lot have. But would probably have to change the way it sits in the groove to work.
 
For the time being, I have ordered a reseal kit that comes with the cap o-ring and retainer ring (Gates #351300, $19.28 via Amazon Prime).

I spent a few days googling Grainger, Fastenal, Motion Industries, etc etc sites looking at various types of rings but never found one that fit both the diameter and thickness. Anything I found that would work for the bore was half the original ring thickness or less. Fastenal had one ring that did fit the dims needed but was a wire ring just like the steering boxes uses. I don't think the typical internal snap ring will work right as they don't have a uniform width, they are thick at the eyelets and the opposite side but narrower in between. Spiral lock rings looked like a good candidate but they were always much thinner so I question if one would be strong enough.

This "circlip" style ring looked like the perfect solution but I couldn't find one the right size.
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I'll keep looking but for now I'm going to try a new stock style ring and see how it goes. Hopefully mine was just tired.
 
I'm not really sure the ring has to do any holding... My previous post about the cap sliding back over it is what holds it on place. The ring goes in the groove, then the part of the cap that Slides back through it should create too small of a space for the ring to come back out of it's groove. It doesn't need to be springy to hold. It just needs to be a smooth arc to allow the cap to come back out through it some and hold it in place.

In the end it isn't technically the ring that holds the pressure as much as the mechanical interference of the cap trying to shove the ring back into it's groove to get by it.

That's the way it works as far as I can tell anyway..:dunno:

Maybe yours had been bent just enough that the cap couldn't come back through the ring far enough :dunno:.

Or I have NO frickin idea what I'm talking about/ thinking... In which case carry on :doah::D
 
I do agree with you about the interference lock. It just seems like the ring should have some tension qualities since it has to be peeled in and out of the groove. If it’s truly just a piece of bent round rod how can you be sure an install is successful vs it got slightly compressed during installation?
 
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