Steering Box

[sch151]

Hi...new to forum so here goes,

Can anyone tell me why GM installed sleeves on the inside of the frame over the steering box mounting bolts? Every stock truck I have looked at had them and it puzzles me. Since I'm getting ready to weld in the frame repair plate, can they be removed and replaced with washers (grade 8)?

BTW, my truck is a 1985 GMC K1500 Sierra Classic

Thanks.....

 

[4X4HIGH]

The only reason I can think of is that the longer bolt with spacer makes it easier to get at the bolts. I don't see a problem removing the spacer and running a shorter bolt with a hardened grade 8 washer.

 

[Matt J.]

Ah okay so there is supposed to be spacers there. The PO of my burb stacked washers where the sleeves are supposed to be. I was going to go with shorter bolts to remedy the situation. I wonder if I should just go with the sleeves as it should be. I'll look for those when I'm at the JY this weekend.

 

[6872xtc]

What I was told by a GM tech back in the early nineties was that the spacers gave someplace for the bolts to stretch for torque retention. I have seen a lot of trucks with the same spacers on the trans crossmember bolts at the frame also. I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense to me and I would think that stacked washers would do the same.

 

[sch151]

What I was told by a GM tech back in the early nineties was that the spacers gave someplace for the bolts to stretch for torque retention. I have seen a lot of trucks with the same spacers on the trans crossmember bolts at the frame also. I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense to me and I would think that stacked washers would do the same.

That does make some sense...thank you. BTW, what is the torque supposed to be for the steering box mounting bolts?

 

[6872xtc]

I don't know for sure what it is supposed to be, I personally use 75ft.lbs. IIRC that is about spec for 7/16" coarse thread bolts. Maybe someone else knows for sure? I don't know if the instructions for the frame reinforcement kits says, but I would make sure to bolt it in through the box mounting holes before welding it to the frame. (Just my idea, trying to be helpful)

 

[sch151]

Re:

I don't know for sure what it is supposed to be, I personally use 75ft.lbs. IIRC that is about spec for 7/16" coarse thread bolts. Maybe someone else knows for sure? I don't know if the instructions for the frame reinforcement kits says, but I would make sure to bolt it in through the box mounting holes before welding it to the frame. (Just my idea, trying to be helpful)

Got the kit from a local vender. Instructions say torque to 70 pounds. Spoke to a local 4WD shop and they said they install the bolts with or without the spacers/sleeves depending on how the vehicle came in. Gotta say I was VERY dissapointed with the frame brace kit. Spent 5 hours cutting, grinding and clamping it just to get it to fit right.

 

[imiceman44]

What I was told by a GM tech back in the early nineties was that the spacers gave someplace for the bolts to stretch for torque retention. I have seen a lot of trucks with the same spacers on the trans crossmember bolts at the frame also. I don't know if it's true, but it makes sense to me and I would think that stacked washers would do the same.

That is the actual reason, the longer the bolt the better chance you get for more give and take without breaking the bolt and still giving some flex.
If the bolt is too short it doesn't have any give and it could strip the threads on the box or break the bolt.
So stacking wahsers or using the spacer gives you the same effect, a longer bolt.
Notice they used the same principle in more than one place, the newer cross member for the tranny tcase also had those spacers, some people use them to space down the cross member but the intent was a longer bolt.
I eliminated the spacer and and ended up losing bolts, noticed most of the time they would be lose, and no matter how tight I made them, they losened up.
Ended up putting lock washers and slightly longer bolts, and it worked.
That's when I learned more about bolts and stretch.

 

[sch151]

Re:

That is the actual reason, the longer the bolt the better chance you get for more give and take without breaking the bolt and still giving some flex.
If the bolt is too short it doesn't have any give and it could strip the threads on the box or break the bolt.
So stacking wahsers or using the spacer gives you the same effect, a longer bolt.
Notice they used the same principle in more than one place, the newer cross member for the tranny tcase also had those spacers, some people use them to space down the cross member but the intent was a longer bolt.
I eliminated the spacer and and ended up losing bolts, noticed most of the time they would be lose, and no matter how tight I made them, they losened up.
Ended up putting lock washers and slightly longer bolts, and it worked.
That's when I learned more about bolts and stretch.

Thanks for the input. Although the bolts were tight when I took them off, I noticed that the spacers had been digging into the inside of the frame rail so I am going to trim down the spacers about 1/4" and put a grade 8 flat washer between the frame and the spacer. Still allows for stretch and spreads the load out over a slighly larger surface.

 

[imiceman44]

Thanks for the input. Although the bolts were tight when I took them off, I noticed that the spacers had been digging into the inside of the frame rail so I am going to trim down the spacers about 1/4" and put a grade 8 flat washer between the frame and the spacer. Still allows for stretch and spreads the load out over a slighly larger surface.

I did that on my blazer, I made a pyramid of washers starting with small on the bolt head side and getting to 2" diameter on the frame side, plus my weld in patch and it worked great for 5 years.

 

[sch151]

I did that on my blazer, I made a pyramid of washers starting with small on the bolt head side and getting to 2" diameter on the frame side, plus my weld in patch and it worked great for 5 years.

Does that mean it cracked again in 5 years or did you sell the vehicle? I was thinking of just using a standard sized washer for a 7/16" bolt. Much bigger and I think you may run into the inside radius of the frame rail.

 

[imiceman44]

Does that mean it cracked again in 5 years or did you sell the vehicle? I was thinking of just using a standard sized washer for a 7/16" bolt. Much bigger and I think you may run into the inside radius of the frame rail.

No 5 years later I parted the truck because my perkins tore up the rest of the frame in pieces, but that part was still good.
Now that you mention it I remember putting smaller ones in the dimple in the frame to get flush with the frame and then I put a piece of 1/4" plate I cut that covered all 4 bolts and then did the other washers, it was as rigid as can be and it was the only part of the frame that was still in good shape.
That's why this time I am starting with a 1 ton frame that is pristine, and reinforcing it now to put my perkins.