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Steering correction and shackle length questions

Babaganoosh

Babaganoosh

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I'm a little confused on this topic and not sure where to start. I have done some searching on here and I'm confusing myself even more.


I'm looking to lift my truck about 4 inches. I have a 4 inch shackle flip in the rear with the option of 4.5inch long shackles and 6 inch shackles. Which ever one I don't sure for the rear I would like to use for the front. My question is I hear shackles add lift, how much?

Would I need a raised steering arm or dropped pitman arm or both? Which one works better?
 
If you have a proper shackle angle they roughly give 1/2 the amount of length added.

Therefore if your stock shackles were 4in eye to eye and you changed them for 6in eye to eye shackles you will gain 1in of lift. Half the added length. Roughly speaking.
 
Ok sounds good now a proper shackle angle is 45 degrees at ride height correct?


So If I go with 3 inch lift springs what should I do for steering correction?
 
30-45* back at ride height.

For stock steering best steering correction would be a drop pitman arm, followed by a raised steering arm and finally the dreaded steering arm block.
 
I'll be running a 10bolt, as far as I can tell from looking around there only is a d60 steering block, is this correct?

Also with the 6 inch shackles in the front and with a 4 inch flip out back would the 4.5 inch shackles give me exactly 4 in the rear and sit level?

http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/steeringcorrection.htm
Looking at this it says 4 inch raised steering arm. Would that sit perfect sense the truck is going to be lifted 4 inches that's all I would need right?

Sorry for all the noob questions, this is my first time go around.
 
Oh no, there are blocks for the 10b/D44. But yes, what you want is the raised arm, easy simple.

As for ride height, it'll be partly decided by how worn your springs are, so you won't know until you try it.

-- A
 
Ok, it makes sense let me clear this all up. 3 inch lift springs with 6 inch shackles should net 4 inches of lift, and for steering correction the 4 inch raised steering arm and call the front a day?

It seems for a 3 inch lift spring there isn't much choice of springs. If I went with 4 inch springs and used the 4.5inch shackles that would still net me 4 inches of lift correct?

This stuff is a little confusing when you are custom making a "kit", I hope I'm not the first one to experience this.
 
Babaganoosh said:
Ok, it makes sense let me clear this all up. 3 inch lift springs with 6 inch shackles should net 4 inches of lift, and for steering correction the 4 inch raised steering arm and call the front a day?

It seems for a 3 inch lift spring there isn't much choice of springs. If I went with 4 inch springs and used the 4.5inch shackles that would still net me 4 inches of lift correct?

This stuff is a little confusing when you are custom making a "kit", I hope I'm not the first one to experience this.
Click to expand...

Basically yes you are on the right track. I find it always better to go with a lesser lift spring and compensate with a zero rate if you find you came up a little short. You cant take lift out without ruining the spring rate of the pack.
 
Do you have front springs already? Front shackles much longer than stock screw things up royally, the only reason ours are longer than stock is to keep the spring from hitting the frame and 1/2" isn't much (1/4" more lift).

As for the rear, if you have a 4" flip, use the 4.5" shackles.

A 45 degree shackle angle on either spring in this situation will dramatically increase the effective spring rate on either the front or rear, making the spring stiffer in compression. The idea of putting the shackle at an angle is to get more flex from a relatively flat spring, just be aware that it makes the compression rate higher (and approches infinity, depending on the shackle angle you'll hit bumps and it will feel like you're on the bumpstops even if you're not). Basically, on the road, it can hurt ride quality a bunch ("bottoming out" all the time) and offroad it causes more articulation in droop than articulation, which can work, but generally means the COG of the vehicle stays higher which is bad.
 
I do not have a set of front springs yet, I still haven't made up mind mind yet for what I want them to do. It seems talking to you (ORD) for a set of springs would make life easier.

To make matters worse this is a 2wd to 4wd conversion so really it's all up in the air. :haha:
 
38377k5 said:
A 45 degree shackle angle on either spring in this situation will dramatically increase the effective spring rate on either the front or rear, making the spring stiffer in compression. The idea of putting the shackle at an angle is to get more flex from a relatively flat spring, just be aware that it makes the compression rate higher (and approches infinity, depending on the shackle angle you'll hit bumps and it will feel like you're on the bumpstops even if you're not). Basically, on the road, it can hurt ride quality a bunch ("bottoming out" all the time) and offroad it causes more articulation in droop than articulation, which can work, but generally means the COG of the vehicle stays higher which is bad.
Click to expand...

I know you've said this before, but I'm still having difficulties understanding your reasoning behind this.
Maybe you could explain this so even I understand ;)

I think the angle would make the suspension softer since the axle get some extra upwards movement "for free"
as the shackle angle increases and moves the spring upwards on compression.
So as I see it, the suspension gets softer and softer until it actually bottoms out, and then it gets really stiff for obvious reasons.
But if properly set up that should never be allowed to happen, just add shackle length or decrease shackle angle some.
 
Fred_M1010 said:
I know you've said this before, but I'm still having difficulties understanding your reasoning behind this.
Maybe you could explain this so even I understand ;)

I think the angle would make the suspension softer since the axle get some extra upwards movement "for free"
as the shackle angle increases and moves the spring upwards on compression.
So as I see it, the suspension gets softer and softer until it actually bottoms out, and then it gets really stiff for obvious reasons.
But if properly set up that should never be allowed to happen, just add shackle length or decrease shackle angle some.
Click to expand...

I can only speak from experience that 30-45* back made my truck ride 1000x better.
 
Babaganoosh said:
Ok, it makes sense let me clear this all up. 3 inch lift springs with 6 inch shackles should net 4 inches of lift, and for steering correction the 4 inch raised steering arm and call the front a day?

It seems for a 3 inch lift spring there isn't much choice of springs. If I went with 4 inch springs and used the 4.5inch shackles that would still net me 4 inches of lift correct?

This stuff is a little confusing when you are custom making a "kit", I hope I'm not the first one to experience this.
Click to expand...

Now wait a second. If you have a shackle flip i thought that you should already gain lift because the shackle is now hanging down rarher than up... So with 3 inch springs and a 6" shackle you would only net 4" lift over stock? Or are you saying you will net another 4" over the current shackle flip lift? I guess what im saying is how much total lift would you get with that setup because that makes no sense to me on what the purpose of the shackle flip is if it only gives you an inch on top of lift springs. Why not get 4 inch springs?
 
What is labelled a 4" shackle flip usually provides about 4" of lift using the stock springs and shackles. This is because it moves the location of the where the spring bolts to the shackle down by about 8".......since you are only moving one side of the springs down and the axle is in the middle of the spring you get about half the lift. Once you have the shackle flip installed then longer shackles will provide more lift, again the amount of lift is usually about half of the increased length of the shackle.

The lift a shackle provides does depend on the angle it sits at. The only theory of the lift being equal to half of the increase shackle length is based on the shackle being straight up and down. The more of an angle it sits the less total lift it will provide. As an example, if you go from a 4" to 6" shackle that sits straight up and down, it should provide 1" of lift. If that shackle sits at a 45 degree angle then it will only provide about 1/2" of total lift.
 
So in this case he already has a shackle flip adding 4", then adding another 3" in lift springs and 6 inch shackle should net 7.5" total lift.
 
Going back to what Chris touched on, longer shackles on the front springs can create lots of problems because the also effect the axles caster angle which can lead to poor steering response/feel and even DW.
 
Actual this doesn't have anything to do with the shackle flip. I was using that as a reference for the amount of lift I would need in the front.
 
I just bought a diy shackle flip with 6" shackles, so I was trying to read into it.

Guess I should buy some 4" ORD springs for the front I assume.. :whistle:
 
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