steering wonderment

[blazinzuk]

So I am sitting here thinking about my steering.

little background 87 pickup truggy thing. 56s up front, DIY shackle mounts 3/8 thick shackles. High steer, ORD steering arms. Oh its a 60 also has hydro assist.

Steers not bad but not good, I am talking specifically about steering while wheeling in the rocks at low speed. The main problem is that the steering kicks the shackles over. So your steering wheel moves your pitman arm moves everything works like it should except the shackles take alot of the actual steering input out.

So solutions, the obvious is a panhard. I dont' want to do that right now because I plan to go coils next year and I don't have alot of room in there to mount another bar.

So I may try to brace the frame up in that area. plate it on all 3 sides on the outside of the frame with 3/16 plate steel welded to the frame and then together. I may also put a brace of sorts on the inside of the frame, sort of to box it in.

I realize I may be creating a weak point because of the "mini boxing". After this week the truck will not really have body mounts anymore, or much of a body and the cage will be tied directly into the frame at several points like 10 I can think of right now. So my frame flex should be held to a very minimum amount.

Would the plating and boxing be worth it?

I have also though about cross tying the shackles. I will do this also but the shackles are close to the frame in full stuff and I think the tie in would have to be so low as to be very very ineffective.

 

[ryoken]

upgraded thicker shackles i'm guessing.. are you running the stock upper bushing?

 

[blazinzuk]

no I am not running the stock bushings I am running these

 

[ryoken]

as you said, I see links in your future...

i'm guessing the majority of the movement is the rail twisting.. i would think actually boxing the section would help the most.. as opposed to adding thickness to the existing stuff... only thing i would suggest is it would probably help a bunch if you box the longest section you can to avoid the stress points you mentioned...

 

[Blazinaire]

Sounds like the same problem that I was having. To see what is actually moving, park the truck with one of the front wheels against a curb and have someone else turn the wheel back and forth slowly. I would be willing to bet that it is not frame flex at all sseing as how you already have hydro assist, but simply the added leverage of the longer spring and longer shackle allowing the axle to push to one side or the other as you steer. A panhard will cure almost all of the symptoms and there is room to run an equal length (with the draglink) while still running leafs.

If you do not want to run the panhard, about the best gain you will see would be from tying the inside and outside shackle plates to each other forming an "H". Making the shackle any thicker than 3/8" won't help anything but bringing your COG down! The movement there is the plates shifting while pivoting on the bolt making them look like // or \\.

Does the axle shift from side to side while turning if the truck is sitting level or only while you are side loaded/ leaning over?

 

[blazinzuk]

Yes that's the problem I am having.

I am trying to brain storm for ideas and get other peoples opinions on what would help.

The cure is a panhard but like I said I have very little room in there (2" of lift plus high steer plus the ram) and I am going to go coils next year, I will more than likely have to move the panhard from where I would put it now.

Do you think that beefing up the frame in that area would help?

I really can't go shorter shackles so that's out.

I was looking at it today and I will cross tie the shackles and see if it helps.

Someone want to buy me 6 flex joints????????? lol

I may just have to suffer through this but after I get the cage done I will probably try beefing up the frame to see if it helps at all, that is easy to do

 

[Fred_M1010]

no I am not running the stock bushings I am running these

It doesn't show the actual bushing.
Are they poly-bushings? if not, swap them.
(same goes for the spring bushings)

I also think tying the shackles together would help some.
If your shackles are a little short and there's not much room for it,
it might work placing the reinforcement at an angle so it follows the contour of the frame like this:


Mine still wanders some, but I hardly notice it off road.
It's worse on the road though...

But the best solution would be full hydro steering

 

[MTBLAZER89]

I have this same thing except with 52's. 7.25 shackles with Kerts upper frame bushing kit and all new poly bushings.

I can actually see the movemnt with the shackles. I don't see the frame twisting at all, but there is obvious movement at the shackles.

Cross tying them may help some, but I really think a panhard is the only "cure" to prevent lateral movement.

I'll be following along though

 

[blazinzuk]

Thanks for that suggestion Fred. Never thought of that but that could get the cross brace higher, sweet.

I think the cross bracing will be first, see what that improves and then go onto the frame boxing, my truck is going through some major changes right now so it will be a couple weeks but I will make sure I post my results.

BTW the springs are rubber, but the shackle mounts are poly

 

[andyblack]

I think Black Widow Performance used to make some thick cross-tied shackles in a 7" or 7.25". I don't think they're around anymore though. I can't get their website to come up, but maybe you could find a pair of them. The only possible problem I could see with them was that they were cross-tied right in the middle of the shackle, so they could possibly hit the frame. They looked pretty beefy though.

 

[blazinzuk]

I have no problem making my own cross ties, but I have an idea brewing in my head that is way more involved and I am not sure if it will work. When I get it more thought through I may mention it and see what everyone thinks

 

[Fred_M1010]

BTW the springs are rubber, but the shackle mounts are poly

I had a LOT of lateral play when I used rubber bushings in the springs (even though I used brand new ones).
They're just not designed for stability in that direction.

I think you will see it pretty clear, if you have someone to steer back and forth while you check it out.

But maybe the shackles flex so much that you won't see the bushing flex untill you've fixed the shackles...

 

[BGKYK5]

Quickest and easiest thing to try is crosstied shackles, do that first. If that doesn't help enough, I think a panhard, links, or full hydro are the only real solutions. If the frame is flexing that much, you have other issues.

 

[blazinzuk]

Quickest and easiest thing to try is crosstied shackles, do that first. If that doesn't help enough, I think a panhard, links, or full hydro are the only real solutions. If the frame is flexing that much, you have other issues.

I was actually hoping a combination of things would help just a little, but do several of them. Full Hydro with the same shackles does the same thing. But does end up steering better because of the fact that the axle doesn't move in relation to where the steering input is coming from.

eventually links will cure the problem but its kind of annoying right now.