STOP! 14 Bolt brakes!

[xCaliK5x]

Well, my brakes on my truck are kinda shotty. I haven't had this truck a month yet. There is probably 10% pad left in the front, caliper hardware is falling out. The lines are too short, so I have to redo the front brakes. Pads, calipers, lines.

The rear is another story. I have NO clue whats behind the drums. Its an early 14 Bolt FF with the parking brake cables that appear to be equal length, and are held on to the backing plate by a couple of bolts. The rear brake line is also keeping me from getting full droop on the axle!

My question is, being that I'm doing the front brakes, the rear also should be done I'm guessing.

Do I re-do the rears from the backing plate out and try and figure out the parking brake?

Do I swap to discs and not have a parking brake? I found a kit online here http://www.twiztedengineering.com/servlet/the-1/Conversion-Disc-Brake-Bracket/Detail for less then $400.

I have a slip yolk 208 so I'm guessing no parking brake can be attached to it easily?

I'm still on the stock booster and master, do I need to change these with the 14 Bolt drums, or disc?

Thank you in advance for helping the n00b oh wise CK5 guru's.

 

[big dan]

Imo, Kert's (diy4x) disk brackets are one of the best and ruffstuff would be my next choice and you can put together rear disks for a lot less than $400 using one of these brackets. overall I've got about $80 in my rear disks because I had an extra set of rotors and calipers. But even if you buy new rotors ($25x2) and calipers ($13x2) it will still only cost around $150-$175

for brake lines I would get stainless like the ones offered by ord.

I dont run a parking brake but it could be usefull. you can use calipers off of an early cadillac and they will have hookups for parking brakes if you choose.

for master cylinder and booster, Im using the stock stuff for now but there are better master cylinder upgrades.

and finally the search function is your friend. there is tons of info here about disk brake swaps as well as plenty of vendors that offer what you'll need.

 

[xCaliK5x]

So if I was going to upgrade to a better master, which one do I get? Do I one out of a 3/4ton truck? Do I switch the booster too? I'm not afraid at throwing money at it. I'm one of those people that likes to do it right the first time with all the right stuff and parts so I don't have to worry about it. Thanks again.

 

[Jason4x4]

the eldo calipers suck, they don't hold very well, i wouldn't trust them to keep you from rolling down a hill.

 

[Stomis]

So if I was going to upgrade to a better master, which one do I get? Do I one out of a 3/4ton truck? Do I switch the booster too? I'm not afraid at throwing money at it. I'm one of those people that likes to do it right the first time with all the right stuff and parts so I don't have to worry about it. Thanks again.

I saw a post on here by someone that said he finally found the perfect Master match to 4 wheel disc on our truck. I believe it was like a 98 3/4 or 1ton with 4 wheel disc. I'm not sure so search for it.

Honestly I dont have a problem with my drums. I need a parking brake since I live on a hill and dont like to leave the truck in gear and mine holds damn well.

Your other parking brake option that you might not know about is a hydraulic lever they make now. Its your standard car parking brake lever that you can mount anywhere. When you yank it up it applies hydraulic pressure, so you would just plum it into the rear brake lines.

 

[dhcomp]

Seriously, people underestimate the stock rear brakes on the 14 bolt. Most due to lack of maintenance, adjustment, or whatever are messed up. Properly setup, these drum systems rock. Are they heavy? yes. Do they clog up wiht mud if that is your thing? Yes. But for most guys on here, they do the job. The brakes on my 91 rock, and i have the larger size drum on the 14bolt SF. I think the FF brakes may even be bigger. Also, some truck has proportioning valves that do not function properly either.

Personally, i tow too much and drive too many road miles to Not have a cable operated ebrake. Both for parking and emergency purposes. I can't believe how many ppl on here run w/o one. I think it is dangerous and irrisponsible. The hydro parking brake lever would be find for parking i guess, but i wouldnt' want to leave the system presurized like taht for long periods of time....and it defeats the emergency MECHANICAL (not hydraulic) aspect of the parking brake.

So unless you really demand the increased stopping power, reduced weight, and self cleaning abilities of the disks, i say entirely rebuild your drums, and run them.

The brakes on my burb will put you through the windshield. They have never faultered, even with 5-6k in tow down long grades.

 

[Merv]

Either way you go. Just remember that the disc brake caliper brackets are only a fraction of the cost. If your going disc thinking your gonna save a bunch of cash, do some more research.

 

[original balzer]

Personally most of my vehicles hve been old and most often their parking brakes do not work.

I have used a parking brake maybe a handfull of times and those times it was only for a few minutes anyway.

So I really dont see why they are as critical as some of you guys make them out to be.

Also many of the old 2 ton trucks used a line loc as a parking brake. You pushed the pedal and flipped a lever to lock the line pressure.

Now heres the thing I live in the Rockies, hills and mountains are a part of every day life. So is parking on hills and slopes. In an auto the park pawl is small but I have never seen one fail. In a manual parking in gear has always held. Ok now lets say Im towing or hauling a lot of weight. I just find flat ground to park on. Some of you may object to it but I dont use a parking brake very often.

If you maintain your stuff I dont see why failure is a big problem.

My crew cab will get a line loc to the rear disks. If they wasnt so Damn expencive it would get one to the fronts too. it would come in handy for time when you need to jack up the rear. Granted I always chock what ever wheels are still on the ground while working on something.

Now as far as the rear drums being good enough I agree, drum brakes have served me well. the mud and complexity of them are what I am getting away from. Yes I know how to replace drum brakes, but I always have to think about it when it finally comes time to do them. They are time consuming as well. Its MUCH easier and faster to change the pads on disk brakes. the added stopping power is just a bonus for me.

Just to make this even more long winded someone will say oh but what if your brakes fail and you dont have cable opperated back up system. I say if you cant get you vehicle shut down without ever touching the brakes your doing something wrong. In an emegency situation I will jam gears into lower ones slam the t case into low or even blow up the engine to get it shut down.

Thats just me though HAHA

 

[Big Blzn]

Here's my $.02.

I have my 3/4 ton junk I will be installing in several weeks. I have had the 14bff in my garage for about 2 years and when I first got it it had drums. In retrospect, I wish I would have left the drums on. At the same time the drums internals looked pretty bad and for the noob like I am to redo the drum system would have been a challenge. So i tore everything off the 14bolt and now have everything installed on the axle less the brake lines from the caliper to the T fitting above the pumpkin. I can get a custom length set made from SS from inline tube for about $70 dollars (the quote I got last week). I got the brackets from DIY which are bitchin and already had new remaned calipers w/out ebrakes. I also have a set of Caddy calipers that I started to rebuild but got really frustrated and and just used the standard GM ones I mentioned earlier. Down the line I'll play with the caddies. Some people really like the caddies and have had great success and others haven't. I may go with the driveline brake from HAD to have something to park with. And for those that use the stock parking break for anything other than to keep you truck from rolling out of it's spot is, IMO, foolish. A depressed parking brake at most speeds is going to be worthless and the current parking break on my drummed 12 bolt really only grabs well when the nose of the truck is facing down hill. If I am facing up hill the stock drum parking brakes will not hold well at all. If you are willing to throw whatever money at your brakes or I had that kind of money I would go buy the TSM calipers with the ebrake system. Pretty spendy but if you have the money and don't want to get frustrated like I did with having to rebuild the old caddies then go with TSM or rebuild your drums.

 

[xCaliK5x]

I am no stranger to drums having owned LOTS of aircooled VW's. They are cake to do. My thing is, one of the drums has a chunk missing on the outter edge, so I would need drums anyway. Plus the previously mentioned idea of them getting clogged with mud, sand, whatever I driver through is a thought. I could go either way. I have never seen a parking pawl fail either. It would be nice to shave some weight off the ass end to make up for the tire carrier and spare I will be putting on.

The hydraulic lever is a great idea. I can plumb one in for like a sand rail.

As far as the master, I have searched, but the results are all over the board. Seems like you ask 10 people, or check 10 different threads and you get equal amounts of differing opinions and answers. If I DO swap to rears I should use XXXX, if I keep the drums use XXXX. I was trying to get a general overall consenous. I'm not loaded with cash, but working on cars for a living, I know when and where to scrimp, and brakes aren't one of them.

 

[original balzer]

I would have needed new drums as well as mine are grooved pretty deep. The pass side had a real bad groove where the parking brake lever had come undone. Not to mention it had damaged practically every other part in there. I knew I should have got pics. Bottom line is I spent about $400 is for disk brake swap with all new parts. I would have spent at least half of that repairing the old drum system. I got better braking and easier maintainance.

Thats the problem with the drum brakes. Getting into the drums and doing the repairs and maintainance is difficult enough that it often gets neglected. Often to the point that you have to replace everything anyway. I have also had a few trucks that had a terrible noise in one of the rear drums. When I took them appart, the parts was new but someone had put it back together wrong.

I will be doing a rear disk swap on my 77 as well, later down the road.

 

[xCaliK5x]

UPDATE!!!!

Ok, I ordered the lines and brackets for the rear disc set up, along with a steering box brace kit, weld and bolt in, and all stainless lines from ORD today. I also bought new 1/2 ton calipers. Steve told me to use the 1/2 tons in the rear and get 3/4 ton calipers for the front. As far as rotors, since my truck is 8 lug, what rotors do I need? Do I just order a set of front 3/4 ton rotors so they are 8 lug?

 

[xCaliK5x]

^^^ Anyone???? Bueller?

 

[wannabehero]

im 99% sure you use front 3/4 rotors.

just a quick question. i swapped to a 14bff in my k5. the brakes have felt weird ever since. they pulsated for a while then just went back to normal.

i still have the stock master and ive bled the hell out of the whole system.
is there a different master i should be using or is the stock one ok with the swap?

 

[xCaliK5x]

I was wondering the same thing. I was told by ORD the stock master is fine for 1/2 ton stuff, but 1 ton brakes it gets iffy. They also told me it will be fine for the rear discs. Mine has the drums under it still, pedal travel is further and its squishey. I have no idea what the inside of the drums are like, and the fluid looks like diesel oil, so I have a pretty good idea.

3/4 ton rotors have the same dimensions but 8 lug?

 

[wannabehero]

iirc a 8 lug 3/4 ton rotor is what most guys use.

 

[dhcomp]

I was wondering the same thing. I was told by ORD the stock master is fine for 1/2 ton stuff, but 1 ton brakes it gets iffy. They also told me it will be fine for the rear discs. Mine has the drums under it still, pedal travel is further and its squishey. I have no idea what the inside of the drums are like, and the fluid looks like diesel oil, so I have a pretty good idea.

3/4 ton rotors have the same dimensions but 8 lug?

Flush and bleed system. Make a homemade pressure bleeder (search) and crack the rear bleed screws open until you are getting clear fluid.

 

[xCaliK5x]

I have a power bleeder at the shop, I got the GM reservoir adapter on order. I'm counting the days untill my packages from ORD arrive!

 

[dhcomp]

I have a power bleeder at the shop, I got the GM reservoir adapter on order. I'm counting the days untill my packages from ORD arrive!

Hope your adapter doesn't suck. After using the motive one, i wish i had just made my own.....

I hate it when you buy things to make it easier, and wish you had DIY'd it